Topic of the Week 03/07: Did Lureen know Jack was gay?

[Marge_Innavera]

In the scene were Jack is looking for his parka and Lureen is asking him pointed questions about why 'your friend can't come to Texas," there's a pointed quality in her tone of voice -- like she's needling him about something. But I've never gotten the impression that she even suspects  he's gay at that point.  It looked more like she knows these 'fishing trips' are bogus, but that  (1) Ennis doesn't exist: Jack has a long-term girlfriend in another state; (2) Ennis does exist, and is an old buddy who can be counted on to vouch for Jack if Lureen starts investigating, or (3) Jack and his friend spend their "trips" gambling and whoring.  Actually, a gambling problem could explain a lot of Jack's behavior.

Even if their marriage is already starting to slide downhill, there are any number of reasons why that can and often does happen. IMO Lureen isn't sure about the reasons for the decline in their marriage but Ennis' phone call is what tells her the rest of the story.

[moremojo]

....so even after Ennis' phone call i still dont think "gay" was the word she would have thought about the relationship that Jack and Ennis had.

Just as Jack and Ennis probably never saw their relationship as "gay". Yet "gay" is undeniably what the rest of the society would have labelled it.

[brokeplex]

Did Lureen know that Jack was gay? Probably not at first, but over time.... yes she did. And, her father definitely did and disapproved of Jack. Look at the differences in the screenplay and the movie during the "Sit down you old sonuvabitch!" Thanksgiving dinner. Perhaps her father's disapproval of Jack is one of the reasons Lureen married Jack. In the movie, by the time we get to 1978 in the scene at the fundraiser for the Childress County Children's home, Lureen is clearly disappointed in her life. I think that she quietly accepted his "wanderings" as long as he didn't make a public spectacle of himself. Her tone when she was speaking with Ennis in 1983 after he learns of Jack's death shows that she had mentally compartmentalized Jack, and clearly he had not been the focus of her life for some time. On the other hand,for Alma, Ennis was the love of her life and she felt KEEN betrayal upon the understanding of her husband's affair with Jack. I don't think that Lureen ever felt for Jack what Alma felt for Ennis. So in Lureen, you didn't see the anger that was demonstrated in Alma....Lureen just had a sense that her marriage was probably a mistake and was dealing with it in the best way she could. I feel great sorrow for both women, especially Alma. The CLOSET has many victims, included in that number are spouses and children. Had Jack and Ennis felt free to live their lives together, two unhappy marriages could have been averted.

[Marge_Innavera]

Did Lureen know that Jack was gay? Probably not at first, but over time.... yes she did. And, her father definitely did and disapproved of Jack. Look at the differences in the screenplay and the movie during the "Sit down you old sonuvabitch!" Thanksgiving dinner.

But the father-in-law's hostility can also be explained by the fact that he "makes serious money", to quote Jack, and his daughter marries a rodeo cowboy with little education and from a dirt-poor background. And his snarky suggestions about Jack's masculinity (e.g., "boys should watch football") could as easily have been a reference to the fact that Jack has continued to work at the family business and not tried any kind of career on his own.  If the son-in-law had been from The Right Background, Newsome could have lived with that and regarded Jack as a protege but that wasn't the case. Moreover, the decor in the Twists' house suggests a nouveau riche family background, which would make the parents-in-law more sensitive about their daughter having married beneath her than if they'd been prosperous for several generations.

I feel great sorrow for both [Lureen and] Alma. The CLOSET has many victims, included in that number are spouses and children. Had Jack and Ennis felt free to live their lives together, two unhappy marriages could have been averted.

We're all in agreement on that aspect, for sure.

[moremojo]

We're all in agreement on that aspect, for sure.

Although, without his marriage to Alma, Ennis would never have had the two daughters who were so dear to his heart, and may even, by the film's end, have become his primary or sole reason for living.

[huntinbuddy]

(3) Jack and his friend spend their "trips" gambling and whoring.  Actually, a gambling problem could explain a lot of Jack's behavior.

Probably more whoring than gambling.  At least legal gambling.  What many don't know, at least with the present generation, is that here in the US,
gambling has only exploded in the past 20 years.

In 1931, Nevada was the first and only state to have legalized gambling.  Then came New Jersey in 1978, and now it seems nearly every
state has some form of it.  Even legal lotteries are fairly new.  New Hampshire had the first in 1964, followed by New York in 67, and then
New Jersey in 1971.  Just like casinos, it seems nearly every state now has some form of lottery games.

For what it's worth,

hb

[Shakesthecoffecan]

We're not given a lot of insite into what the wives were thinking, but certainly Alma more. Lureen in both the story and especially in the movie, seems to jsut be annoyed with Jack over the years and then in her final scene is confronted with the truth. This Ennis Del Mar, what ever she thought of him, is now a heartbroken voice on the other end of the line, and she finally "gets it".

It also leads into all other sort of ideas, like did she know and have him killed? Was he killed because he was gay and that was how she found out?

[Toast]

Did Lureen know that Jack was gay? Probably not at first, but over time.... yes she did. And, her father definitely did and disapproved of Jack. Look at the differences in the screenplay and the movie during the "Sit down you old sonuvabitch!" Thanksgiving dinner. Perhaps her father's disapproval of Jack is one of the reasons Lureen married Jack. In the movie, by the time we get to 1978 in the scene at the fundraiser for the Childress County Children's home, Lureen is clearly disappointed in her life. I think that she quietly accepted his "wanderings" as long as he didn't make a public spectacle of himself. Her tone when she was speaking with Ennis in 1983 after he learns of Jack's death shows that she had mentally compartmentalized Jack, and clearly he had not been the focus of her life for some time. On the other hand,for Alma, Ennis was the love of her life and she felt KEEN betrayal upon the understanding of her husband's affair with Jack. I don't think that Lureen ever felt for Jack what Alma felt for Ennis. So in Lureen, you didn't see the anger that was demonstrated in Alma....Lureen just had a sense that her marriage was probably a mistake and was dealing with it in the best way she could. I feel great sorrow for both women, especially Alma. The CLOSET has many victims, included in that number are spouses and children. Had Jack and Ennis felt free to live their lives together, two unhappy marriages could have been averted.

Total agreement, brokeplex.

I think Lureen put Jack between herself and her father for distance
and continued to stay with Jack as a kind of a business decision
Very unhappy girl   buried in the company stuff
Knowing that Jack came back all perky from his northern adventures.

[ifyoucantfixit]

     Not wanting to seem or be argumentative:  however, I dont see how you can place your own thoughts, on them.  You who think she knew he was gay, are yourself aware of it...Therefor you in my opinion are giving her your opinions.  The story is all we can go by..Even Anne Hathaways superb performance is an interpretation.  Between her and Ang Lee.  It was meant to slant your opinion.  To theirs...But the story is still ambigious...
     We will never know for sure...Its merely speculation....We can never say she did..Or did not!!

[moremojo]

To theirs...But the story is still ambigious...

Very true. And the original story is, on this point (along with many others), even more ambiguous than the film. In the story, it is possible that Lureen never realizes Jack was gay (unlikely, but possible). In the film, the close-up of Lureen's anguished face and wounded eyes leaves no doubt that, if she did not arrive at this conclusion earlier, by this point she cannot deny it.