TOTW 07/07: Was Mr. Twist homophobic?

[BlissC]

Yes, I agree that OMT was disappointed in Jack... and he seems quite motivated by the whole issue of Jack coming back to the ranch to help work on the ranch (with Ennis or with another fellow... either of whom would also be a help on the ranch).  He seems to be enjoying his ability to needle Ennis over his level of knowledge about their relationship and over his (OMT's) superior knowledge about certain aspects of Jack's life (i.e. the other fellow).

In all of this OMT comes across as a jerk, but not overwhelmingly homophobic.  OMT seems to illustrate the point that a person can be a jerk without necessarily being homophobic (and at least not frighteningly so).  I think OMT and Mrs. Twist are both learning experiences for Ennis... demonstrating that people can surprise you.  That things are always as bad as his fears kept indicating to him over all those years.  Mrs. Twist is kind, welcoming and seemingly accepting of his and Jack's relationship... And, OMT is a grump, but nothing too overwhelmingly intimidating.

I don't think we're given many indications that OMT really is homophobic... at least he doesn't seem virulently so. 

Interesting discussion, and good that's it's been resurrected. I guess I'd always assumed that OMT was homophobic (always dangerous to assume anything!  ) probably because of his general unfriendliness to Ennis, but given what Jack tells us about his father, I guess it's pretty easy to draw that conclusion.

Like so many other scenes in the SS/movie though there's so much more going on in that scene than appears on the surface, and I admit, until I read the responses on this thread I hadn't spotted a lot of what's going on. Looking at it again now though, I can see that yes, there's nothing in OMT's side of the conversation really to indicate that he is homophobic, and it does seem that he knows the score with Jack and Ennis.

It's interesting though that OMT was disappointed in Jack, presumably a large part of which was because Jack didn't want to settle down and sort out the family ranch. Right from the start of the SS we're told Jack was "crazy to be anywhere but Lightning Flat", which I guess is a pretty standard reaction from a teenager, both then and now - you don't want to be tied to your parents, and you want to spread your wings and be independent. Jack also tells us though that his father was never interested in his rodeoing career - I wonder why? We know that Jack had an abusive childhood, but his father's disappointment in him seemed to start before he left the family home completely. I think it's that disappointment of Jack that shines through in that scene rather than homophobia, but I'm intrigued about the source of that disappointment now.

[brokeplex]

It's interesting though that OMT was disappointed in Jack, presumably a large part of which was because Jack didn't want to settle down and sort out the family ranch. Right from the start of the SS we're told Jack was "crazy to be anywhere but Lightning Flat", which I guess is a pretty standard reaction from a teenager, both then and now - you don't want to be tied to your parents, and you want to spread your wings and be independent. Jack also tells us though that his father was never interested in his rodeoing career - I wonder why? We know that Jack had an abusive childhood, but his father's disappointment in him seemed to start before he left the family home completely. I think it's that disappointment of Jack that shines through in that scene rather than homophobia, but I'm intrigued about the source of that disappointment now.

an abusive childhood?

Sure I've read the accounts in the SS, but what we know we know from Jack's perspective later translated thru Ennis many years later. Jack may or may not have been exaggerating, or wholesale lying to Ennis. I believe that Ennis didn't expect the hospitable offer of cherry cake and coffee from mother Twist, maybe Jack and Ennis overestimated the degree of hostility that their family's would have offered them. Or maybe not. I'm just not willling to totally accept what Jack says as gospel in regard to OMT.

As far as Jack's credibility as a story teller. Well, I think that Jack is outright lying when on the evening of TS1 when asked by Ennis, "what is the Pentecost?" Jack said that he didn't know. Jack was his mother's only son, she was a religious Pentecostal, she would have attempted to indoctrinate Jack with her theology. I suspect that Jack just didn't wish to share all of the hellfire and brimstone theology at that moment, so he lied, and lets remember he lied about a lot of things in the course of those 20 years with Ennis.

[Artiste]

Thanks Bliss!

What you say:
...  abusive childhood, but his father's disappointment in him seemed to start before he left the family home completely. I think it's that disappointment of Jack that shines through in that scene rather than homophobia, but I'm intrigued about the source of that disappointment now. 

.......

Bliss and others:
I find what you said there interesting in many ways!!

Jack is indeed still young a buck (as you say teenager like) when he says that!! But later on, after many years meeting with Ennis, does Jack say negative things about old man Twist ??

Au revoir,
hugs!

[Artiste]

Wow, thanks brokeplex!

You are waking me up with your news:
... I think that Jack is outright lying when on the evening of TS1 when asked by Ennis, "what is the Pentecost?" Jack said that he didn't know. Jack was his mother's only son, she was a religious Pentecostal, she would have attempted to indoctrinate Jack with her theology. I suspect that Jack just didn't wish to share all of the hellfire and brimstone theology at that moment, so he lied, ... 
.........

Brokeplex and to all too:
it was obvious that Jack wanted sex with Ennis there and then, and did not want to talk at lenght about religions which stressed sex as hell (and worst: homosexuality) !!

Right??

Au revoir,
hugs!!   I'll give you some free rubbers for that brokeplex!! ha! ha!!

[myprivatejack]

Wow, thanks brokeplex!

You are waking me up with your news:
... I think that Jack is outright lying when on the evening of TS1 when asked by Ennis, "what is the Pentecost?" Jack said that he didn't know. Jack was his mother's only son, she was a religious Pentecostal, she would have attempted to indoctrinate Jack with her theology. I suspect that Jack just didn't wish to share all of the hellfire and brimstone theology at that moment, so he lied, ... 
.........

Brokeplex and to all too:
it was obvious that Jack wanted sex with Ennis there and then, and did not want to talk at lenght about religions which stressed sex as hell (and worst: homosexuality) !!

Right??

Au revoir,
hugs!!   I'll give you some free rubbers for that brokeplex!! ha! ha!!

I guess young Jack wasn't interested in religion,or at least,he had some teaching on his mother's side that soon were forgotten or left in a corner .It's a very usual contra-reaction in teenagers to rebel against any principles or beliefs from their parents; more still if their life at home was as abusive as Jack's, what produces a wish of going away with all their rules behind.I don't think,however,that he lied to Ennis when this asked him what the Pentecost was,because first; he simply didn't remember,or he wasn't interested at all,more than didn't know it.
2nd.,he wanted Ennis to feel comfortable by his side-now I'm speaking in a simple friend way...-,so he avoided him to feel ignorant in any way.Their relationship up in the mountain-besides the initial attraction which it began with-was founded in a sharing of duties and a complementary sense of each other's way of being; the most Ennis felt comfortable and easy with his friend,the most he opened himself to him.Jack knew that,so he preferred to make him feel as being by an equals side.
And 3rd.,and as you,Artiste,say very well,he wanted sex with Ennis,but he was looking for the proper moment because he realised the fears his friend had.Speaking about religious fundamentalism was not so proper as topic and this wasn't either that right as a moment,when they were getting a degree of intimacy as never before-and that led,as we see a little time after,to the explosion of what had been forming between the both of them-.Let's be true,speaking about hellfire and brimstone makes straight any "thing" you want in other shape¡

[Artiste]

Thanks myprivatejack!

Your post is eloquent as well as finishing with a good sense of humour!

Being that youthful, both Ennis and Jack should not think about religion that much! Not if one desires sex!!

Who started that religious talk as a subject?

Au revoir,
hugs!

[Artiste]

Was he always?

[Artiste]

If he was strongly so homophobic, then would he not or have yelled BAD names at the sight of Ennis entering his house?



Please answer anyone? Everyone ?

Au revoir,
Hugs!

[serious crayons]

If he was strongly so homophobic, then would he not or have yelled BAD names at the sight of Ennis entering his house?



Please answer anyone? Everyone ?

Um, OK. My answer is, I guess he might have done that. But I think there are other ways to express homophobia than yelling bad names the minute you spot somebody who you think is gay.

However, I do not think Mr. Twist is particularly homophobic. Not only does he not say anything overtly homophobic, but he says things that suggest he was somewhat accepting of his son's sexual orientation.

[Artiste]

Thansk whysoserious!!

Wow, you reveal a lot !! And greatly too !!

Since I never saw before,
may I ask you:

are your female, male, other ??

Please !!

Au revoir,
hugs!