Author Topic: Cellar Scribblings  (Read 9160592 times)

Offline Front-Ranger

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Re: Cellar Scribblings
« Reply #17830 on: July 05, 2023, 10:04:53 am »
The general rule seems to be, If something tastes good, it's bad for you.

My first reaction to this was, "You must not have spent much time in Italy then." Everything tastes heavenly in Italy and the vast majority of it is good for you. After having gelato in Italy, I stopped eating U.S. ice cream altogether. There's no comparison. Even pasta and pizza are much more nutritious and taste better too.

In the U.S., we load down our snacks with the Four Horsemen of the Nutritional Apocalypse: flour, fat, salt, and sugar. These are mixed together in various different ways but it's always the four ingredients. Oh, in the case of chips (crisps) it's potato flour which is a bit more nutritious, but just a bit. In Italy, the breads for crosstini or bruschetta are smaller and thinner. Even the pizza crust is thin. And the other ingredients are vegetables, fruit, meats, beans, nuts and so on. Everything is more in balance.
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Offline Jeff Wrangler

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Re: Cellar Scribblings
« Reply #17831 on: July 05, 2023, 11:20:42 am »
In the U.S., we load down our snacks with the Four Horsemen of the Nutritional Apocalypse: flour, fat, salt, and sugar. These are mixed together in various different ways but it's always the four ingredients. Oh, in the case of chips (crisps) it's potato flour which is a bit more nutritious, but just a bit. In Italy, the breads for crosstini or bruschetta are smaller and thinner. Even the pizza crust is thin. And the other ingredients are vegetables, fruit, meats, beans, nuts and so on. Everything is more in balance.

Of course, what I'm talking about is the typical American diet, not an Italian or Mediterranean diet, which is known to be healthier.

Very few of us Americans are fortunate enough to be able to spend time in Italy.
"It is required of every man that the spirit within him should walk abroad among his fellow-men, and travel far and wide."--Charles Dickens.

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Re: Cellar Scribblings
« Reply #17832 on: July 05, 2023, 11:49:47 am »
The thing is, if most Americans cut out that junk food from their diets, they would save so much money in less food, less prescription medicines, less doctors' and hospital costs that they would be able to go to Italy several times!
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Offline Jeff Wrangler

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Re: Cellar Scribblings
« Reply #17833 on: July 05, 2023, 01:00:10 pm »
The thing is, if most Americans cut out that junk food from their diets, they would save so much money in less food, less prescription medicines, less doctors' and hospital costs that they would be able to go to Italy several times!

Of course, then, what do we do about people trapped in "food deserts," where they have limited access to food that isn't high in all that stuff like fat, sodium, and so forth?  :(
"It is required of every man that the spirit within him should walk abroad among his fellow-men, and travel far and wide."--Charles Dickens.

Offline serious crayons

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Re: Cellar Scribblings
« Reply #17834 on: July 05, 2023, 02:26:18 pm »
Unfortunately, the concept of the Mediterranean diet was introduced by Ancel Keys, a University of Minnesota physiologist whose research has been at least partly discredited as cherry-picked. The low-carb community (of which I'm a member) disputes his conclusions, especially. But of course many health institutions (e.g., the Mayo Clinic) promote his ideas. From Wikipedia:

Quote
Keys has received criticism from the low-carbohydrate diet community, who have argued that his Seven Countries Study excluded countries that did not fit his hypothesis. Critics raised four primary objections to the Seven Countries Study, including (1) countries were selected and excluded based on a desired outcome; (2) France, a high-fat, low-heart disease country, was purposefully excluded from the survey; (3) dietary data in Greece taken during Lent introduced a distortion; and (4) sugar was not considered as a possible contributor to coronary heart disease. In response to this criticism, on August 1, 2017, the True Health Initiative released a 65-page white paper entitled "Ancel Keys and the Seven Countries Study: An Evidence-based Response to Revisionist Histories," correcting what they felt were historical inaccuracies and errors that low-carb advocates had perpetuated.

I think in general the Mediterranean diet is healthy, though. There's a lot of pasta, bread and (in Spain) rice, but those won't kill you when you also eat a lot of vegetables, etc. The second time I went to Italy I was in a group of 8-10 friends, two of whom were tri-athletes, who had to stop and rest climbing the stairs in Montepulciano. Meanwhile, gradmothers carrying groceries would just march on up. Europeans don't eat as much junk food and I believe they also get more natural movement exercise.


 

Offline serious crayons

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Re: Cellar Scribblings
« Reply #17835 on: July 05, 2023, 02:28:00 pm »
Of course, then, what do we do about people trapped in "food deserts," where they have limited access to food that isn't high in all that stuff like fat, sodium, and so forth?  :(

Also typically limited access to exercise, whether in gyms (because they aren't located nearby) or walking/running outdoors (because there are fewer parks and streets are more dangerous).


Offline Jeff Wrangler

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Re: Cellar Scribblings
« Reply #17836 on: July 06, 2023, 08:06:48 am »
Maybe we should move this to Changing the Food System.  ;D
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Re: Cellar Scribblings
« Reply #17837 on: July 06, 2023, 11:16:37 am »
If Chuck wants it, I can make that happen.

Living in a "food desert" is challenging, but there are ways around it. I'm surprised there aren't ways to get fresh, real food in the gayborhood. Are there farmers markets or ethnic groceries? These are typical urban choices. You can order food delivered from most groceries now. Also, I subscribed to the meal kit "Hello Fresh" for about a year. It taught me a whole new way of cooking that I now use all the time. Best of all, their recipes are free on their website; you don't have to subscribe! Go to https://www.hellofresh.com/recipes

Some of my favorites are Crunchy Curried Chickpea Bowl, Tunisian Stuffed Peppers, Beef Bulgogi Bowl, and Seared Baramundi with Horseradish Sauce.
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Offline serious crayons

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Re: Cellar Scribblings
« Reply #17838 on: July 06, 2023, 12:43:29 pm »
Jeff, were you saying *you* live in a food desert, or were you just commenting on their existence?

People in food deserts are generally low-income, which is why grocers are less likely to open stores there. So residents can't afford meal kits. Even grocery delivery can be expensive -- the one I have used a few times charges $10 just for the service, plus I add a tip for the driver. Farmer's Markets may be rarer in food deserts, too -- at least in Minneapolis, the ones I am aware of are in neighborhoods with middle to upper-middle average incomes. Ethnic groceries might be more accessible.


Offline Jeff Wrangler

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Re: Cellar Scribblings
« Reply #17839 on: July 06, 2023, 01:13:42 pm »
Jeff, were you saying *you* live in a food desert, or were you just commenting on their existence?

Yes, that's what I was commenting on. I did not say the gayborhood is a food desert, which it certainly isn't. We have at least three supermarkets within easy walking distance of my place, plus the farmers' market. Since it's now July, I'm planning to hit the farmers' market on Saturday to see if the Amishman from whom I've bought fresh sweet corn and tomatoes for years is still there.

But there are neighborhoods in this city that are definitely food deserts. Before Covid hit, somebody reopened a closed supermarket in one of those neighborhoods, and that was considered a Big Deal, but I don't know what's become of it.
"It is required of every man that the spirit within him should walk abroad among his fellow-men, and travel far and wide."--Charles Dickens.