Do You Support The Death Penalty?

[Shasta542]

I'm not sure how I feel about giving the Death Penalty to someone who asks for it Shasta. Does this suddenly make KILLING someone okay because they asked for it? I don't think so. Killing is killing.

I was addressing this comment when I asked about euthanasia and abortion. If killing is killing---these are the SAME matter as the death penalty.

As for the death penalty, I am like dot-matrix on the issue. ( I think you are saying it's a case by case issue with you, dot-matrix)...according to the circumstances?

I believe the guy who kidnapped that little girl, sexually assaulted her, kept her in the closet for awhile, and buried her with her teddy bear--deserves to die. He had her long enough to think about it and let her go, but he killed her. The problem comes when someone thinks that he should have mercy because he had a bad childhood or something. I'm sorry for people who had a bad childhood, but it's  no excuse to me. If you do something like that, you have to be accountable to whatever the justice system has declared.

And as to innocent people being sentenced to death--that's why there has to be no doubt when the death penalty is imposed. DNA, confession, etc. I have never understood how they convicted the guy who killed his pregnant wife and dumped her in the lake. I think he's guilty, but the whole case seemed to be circumstantial. I expected him to get life in prison with no possibility for parole.

[Penthesilea]

I believe the guy who kidnapped that little girl, sexually assaulted her, kept her in the closet for awhile, and buried her with her teddy bear--deserves to die.

So you're not on the fence about the question pro or con death penalty. You're clearly pro death penalty. Limited to certain crimes probably, but clearly pro.

The problem comes when someone thinks that he should have mercy because he had a bad childhood or something. I'm sorry for people who had a bad childhood, but it's  no excuse to me. If you do something like that, you have to be accountable to whatever the justice system has declared.

A bad childhood is not an exuse, by no means, and of course everybody who does something like that must be accountable. But not with death penalty. And to be honest, I'm tired of hearing this argument again and again. Never have I read or heard anybody say that a delinquent should get away with his crime because he had a traumatic childhood. To not impose death penalty does not mean to let a delinquent off the hook. Simple as that.

And as to innocent people being sentenced to death--that's why there has to be no doubt when the death penalty is imposed. DNA, confession, etc.

Tell you what: Every judge, every jury who has ever imposed a death sentence has been sure with no doubt. Some decades ago fingerprints were thought to be a proof that leaves no doubt. Today some people think so of DNA traces. But that's not true. Even DNA analysis is only positive to an percantage of 98% - 99%. This would mean of 100 delinquents killed by death penalty only on the proof of DNA analysis, one or two would be innocent! Of course this number is theoretical, because normally there is other evidence as well in a trial. Therefore the actual number would be smaller, but existing nonetheless.
Confessions: they can be wrong, too. Even if they're not blackmailed with torture.

To make it short: there is no such thing as 100% guarantee that no person would be killed innocently as long as death penalty exists. Everybody who is pro death penalty accepts that innocent people are killed period.

[Shasta542]

Everybody who is pro death penalty accepts that innocent people are killed period.

Everybody--not just death penalty proponents--needs to accept that innocent people are killed every day because it's a fact of life.

The civilian people in the war zone are innocent.

Viable fetuses are innocent.

The victims of drive-bys are innocent.

Abused children who are beaten to death are innocent.

Innocents are killed every day, everywhere.

[Penthesilea]

Everybody--not just death penalty proponents--needs to accept that innocent people are killed every day because it's a fact of life.

The civilian people in the war zone are innocent.

Viable fetuses are innocent.

The victims of drive-bys are innocent.

Abused children who are beaten to death are innocent.

Innocents are killed every day, everywhere.

Facts of life, true.

But the difference to death penalty is that the state knowingly kills innocent people in the name of justice! How perverse is that?

[serious crayons]

I'm sorry for people who had a bad childhood, but it's  no excuse to me. If you do something like that, you have to be accountable to whatever the justice system has declared.

Opposition to the death penalty has absolutely nothing to do with feeling lenient toward the criminal because of his circumstances. It has to do with the death penalty being wrong.

And as to innocent people being sentenced to death--that's why there has to be no doubt when the death penalty is imposed.

Like Chrissi, I don't believe there is any way to be 100 percent certain in 100 percent of cases.

The civilian people in the war zone are innocent.

And that's why we shouldn't go to war, either -- except if there is strong reason to believe more lives can be saved by doing so. (Clearly that has not been the case in Iraq.)

The victims of drive-bys are innocent.

Abused children who are beaten to death are innocent.

Just because murderers kill people doesn't make it OK for the government to do so. In fact, my belief is that the government's killing people creates a culture in which more citizens kill people.

[Pipedream]

I strictly oppose death penalty because I consider it a barbaric relic from the middle ages. In our times, I think, there should be other means to deal with delinquents. Besides, too many innocent people have been killed in the past in the name of justice, be it out of human error or political calculation.
Sure, there are criminals who we might think would deserve a cruel fate for what they've done. But can we always be 100 % certain? I think not. Humans are prone to make mistakes and are sometimes susceptible to corruption. That and my sense of humanity tell me that modern countries should steer clear of capital punishment.

Just my opinion. I haven't read the whole thread, though, so sorry if all this has been said already.

 

[belbbmfan]

I agree Anke.

The trial of Hans Van Themsche started today in Antwerp. He's a 19 year old who shot and killed a Malines woman and a Belgian 2 year old toddler she was babysitting. He shot her at point blank as she was talking a walk with baby Luna. He shot her because she was black. He then shot Luna because she didn't stop crying. He'd shot a Turkish woman before who was sitting on a bench reading a book. She survived. Luckily his killing spree was stopped by a police officer who shot him.

Hans Van Themsche wanted to kill himself and hoped the police would shoot him. He wanted to take as much 'foreigners' with him as possible. He blames it on a bad youth. In his farewell letter to his family he wrote that 'he died in action' should be put on his grave.

I'm shaking writing this down. It's just unbelievalbe that people would commit such crimes.


As much as I cannot even begin to comprehend why he did what he did, I still think that killing him wouldn't solve anything. And that justice wouldn't be served.

http://www.flandersnews.be/cm/flandersnews.be/News/071001_van_Themsche

[Brokeback_Dev]

so I say what about the countries that still hang people for the crimes they commit as they did Saddam Hussain?   It was a horrifying thing to see, but thats how they did to him.  What about when they chop off the heads of criminals for the crimes they commit, or the countless other cruel and unusual punishments?  There's all kinds of inhumane penalties in other countries.  What are we to say?  We are much more civilized?  Is it civilized to take someones life, Kill your parents, rap a baby, torture someone, blow up a building?

I once new a man who killed a woman's husband with a kitchen butcher knife and rapped her 12 yr old daughter.  He didnt get the death penalty because the wife wanted him to rot in prison for the rest of his life as his punishment.  I must admit  for sure prison is an awful place to live out your days, but there is a society to live in in prison.  You just conform to that sick norm, but you live. IDK In this state 25 years is considered a life sentence.  There have been cases of sexual offenders, murders and what not who get out and commit the same crime.  Prison does not provide rehabilitation to these criminals..

As for abortion, i believe it is murder, which is exactly the case in partial birth abortions, but i dont disagree with a woman's right to choose, except partial birth abortions.   If you want to know what that is google it.  And my beliefs have nothing to do with religion and state.  I dont agree with religion and the government is fucked up. 

[moremojo]

I'm with you, David. I too am an American citizen, resident in the State of Texas, which has been my home state from birth. Texas leads the country in the number of inmates it puts to death, a mark of great shame, in my opinion, upon my home state. Execution is cruel and unusual punishment, no question about it, and as such, is clearly unconstitutional.

Furthermore, state-sanctioned killing poisons and morally compromises the society that practices it. Read Friedrich Dürrenmatt's play Der Besuch der alten Dame for a great literary illustration of this reality. No truly enlightened society can pursue or endorse execution as a legitimate means of punishment.

[ifyoucantfixit]

        Well here I am on the opposite side of the fence again.  Oh well here I go. 
     I think sometimes we need to thin the herd as I have  heard it said.  We have these horrible
mean and grewsome people.  The kind like Charles Manson, John Wayne Gayce, and others of their kind that are in the society.  If we just put them in prison for life.  They are still a dredge on the society.  They are often given conjugal rights, begat children who are then placed on the rolls of the state, and may then carry on the legacy of an unfortunate life.
     We had such a case here in oregon. A man that was the son of a man on death row, killed and tortured several young teenaged girls...He deserves to die..in my opinion..He was so cold blooded that he murdered one young girl, and put her in a small refrigerator in his kitchen, and continued to make meals, and have friends over just the same as nothing was amiss.  He then took her out and put her in a cardboard box in the back corner of his lot, and left her there with the rest of his garbage to be burned. 
      I dont feel that ridding society of those types of people...Is cruel or barbaric.  I think it is plain good sense.  You dont rehabilitate that kind of behavior from a person..In spite of all the forward movements in helping folks with mental issues.
      I dont think it should be used very often, and not routinely for sure.....I think there are very few people that fit into these kinds of territory.  But if we do find them...Like the Greenriver Killer..He murdered over 40 young women.
We should give them no quarter..They deserve the same choices they gave their victims...
      Ok im done...except to say...I used to be on the other side.  When I was younger I didnt think it was good to have a death penalty...However time has shown me, in some unique cases its required.