Author Topic: What irks me about the holidays  (Read 49793 times)

Offline Monika

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Re: What irks me about the holidays
« Reply #60 on: December 17, 2010, 03:33:38 pm »
. This year there will be a lunar eclipse on the solstice so it should be very exciting! I'm planning to take a nighttime hike.
well, donīt forget to pack a tree!  :D

That sounds super nice, Lee

Offline David In Indy

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Re: What irks me about the holidays
« Reply #61 on: December 17, 2010, 03:48:58 pm »
Is it just me, or are the TV commercials more obnoxious this year?

There's that Target Lady, returned from last year, I think. And the Honda commercial. And the people singing carol parodies to get you out of the mall and into T.J. Maxx and a couple of other stores I can't remember at the moment. And that little--whatever it is--for H.H. Gregg. ...

Oh, and here in Pennsylvania we have Gus the Groundhog hawking state lottery tickets to the tune of "Jiingle Bells."

Bah! Humbug!  >:(


:laugh: :laugh:

Now, every time I see that HHGregg commercial I'll crack up laughing! :laugh:

That commercial is as annoying as hell! That little thing is annoying throughout the year but he's especially annoying during Christmas, isn't he? :P
Dogs have owners. Cats have staff.

Offline serious crayons

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Re: What irks me about the holidays
« Reply #62 on: December 17, 2010, 05:19:24 pm »
That's what I'm talking about. They are hitching their own secular meanings/celebrations to a religious holiday.

What if people decided to celebrate Ramadan by drinking every night at sundown? Or if millions of people created a tradition of having a pig roast on Rosh Hashana? Sure, you can do whatever floats your boat on any day you choose, but don't call it a celebration of that particular holiday.

I think what happens is that everything gets sort of sucked into the vortex of what we inescapably call "Christmas." Partly because of the predominance of Christians in Western industrialized countries, partly because it's such a huge opportunity to sell stuff, partly because early Christian evangelists tended to make their religion appealing to pagans by appropriating the pagans' own customs (fertility symbols at Easter, lists of saints that resemble pantheons, a rough approximation of the solstice conveniently designated the birthday of someone whose actual birthdate is unknown), partly because however you feel about Jesus it's a pretty nice opportunity to celebrate during a time of year that in Northern climates would otherwise be dreary or even forbidding ... it has become this huge mismash of a holiday, involving all sorts of different attitudes and customs and motivations.

And yeah, we wind up with people who aren't all that religious making a big deal about a holiday that's supposed to designate the birth of Christ. We have Jews turning a minor holiday into a much bigger event involving gifts. We have songs about snow and cold sung ostensibly in honor of someone who lived in a warm climate. All sorts of cultural contradictions.

Is everyone who celebrates "Christmas" thinking about Jesus? No, of course not. But nor are they, for the most part, doing anything deliberately malicious or anti-Christian (unlike drinking for Ramadan or pig-roasting for Rosh Hashana would be). You could, of course, make a strong argument that all this selling stuff and making money in the name of a religious observance would not have met Jesus' approval. But since our economy now fervently depends on that big year-end influx of consumer dollars, I wouldn't expect someone who is concerned about businesses doing well to favor eliminating that aspect of the season.

As for the rest of it, a secular approach to Christmas is mostly about people simply wanting a little fun and good cheer, seizing an opportunity to  get together and eat good food and dress up and contribute to charities and express affection for their loved ones and fellow human beings. Is that so wrong? Would Jesus -- the guy who turned water into wine so a wedding party could have more fun -- object?

So they call it "Christmas" even when it's not really about Christ, and doesn't involve Mass. Maybe you could campaign that they change the name. Good luck with that, and FWIW I don't think Bill O'Reilly would approve.



Offline milomorris

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Re: What irks me about the holidays
« Reply #63 on: December 17, 2010, 05:53:06 pm »
Is that so wrong? Would Jesus -- the guy who turned water into wine so a wedding party could have more fun -- object?

It is wrong if, and he would object when, people do this stuff without acknowledging Him. I don't think He would appreciate being used as a hollow excuse for all that.
  The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of comfort and convenience, but where he stands at times of challenge and controversy.

--Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.

Offline Monika

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Re: What irks me about the holidays
« Reply #64 on: December 17, 2010, 06:02:25 pm »
It is wrong if, and he would object when, people do this stuff without acknowledging Him. I don't think He would appreciate being used as a hollow excuse for all that.
Well, Jesus has been dead for a couple of thousands of years, so I donīt think he minds too much.


In order to get back OT, I have tried to come up with something that irks me about the holidays but I havenīt come up with anything yet. Iīm sure I will as we slowly approach it :D


 




Offline milomorris

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Re: What irks me about the holidays
« Reply #65 on: December 17, 2010, 06:10:35 pm »
Well, Jesus has been dead for a couple of thousands of years, so I donīt think he minds too much.

We Christians believe that He arose from the dead on the third day, and ascended into heaven. So no, He's not dead from our POV.
  The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of comfort and convenience, but where he stands at times of challenge and controversy.

--Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.

Offline Monika

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Re: What irks me about the holidays
« Reply #66 on: December 17, 2010, 06:13:24 pm »
We Christians believe that He arose from the dead on the third day, and ascended into heaven. So no, He's not dead from our POV.
oh right. Well, good for him.

Offline southendmd

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Re: What irks me about the holidays
« Reply #67 on: December 17, 2010, 06:44:22 pm »
The most beautiful Chi Rho I know of, is in the Book of Kells, an illuminated manuscript dating to 800, in Trinity College in Dublin.  I was lucky to see this up close in 1980:


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Offline serious crayons

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Re: What irks me about the holidays
« Reply #68 on: December 17, 2010, 06:52:06 pm »
It is wrong if, and he would object when, people do this stuff without acknowledging Him. I don't think He would appreciate being used as a hollow excuse for all that.

Well, people have a right not to be observant Christians. And they have a right to engage in merriment and gift-giving. And they have a right to do that at this time of year. So it seems that your main beef is, as I said, that that they use the term "Christmas" to describe the occasion for their activities. In other words, you apparently are asking that everybody who's not devoutly celebrating the birth of Jesus to stop calling what they're doing "Christmas."

Yet when people DO that -- when, for example, they say "happy holidays" instead of "merry Christmas" -- then people like Bill O'Reilly jump all over them for NOT calling it Christmas.

So secular celebrants can't win either way.



Offline milomorris

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Re: What irks me about the holidays
« Reply #69 on: December 17, 2010, 07:22:28 pm »
Well, people have a right not to be observant Christians. And they have a right to engage in merriment and gift-giving. And they have a right to do that at this time of year. So it seems that your main beef is, as I said, that that they use the term "Christmas" to describe the occasion for their activities. In other words, you apparently are asking that everybody who's not devoutly celebrating the birth of Jesus to stop calling what they're doing "Christmas."

Yet when people DO that -- when, for example, they say "happy holidays" instead of "merry Christmas" -- then people like Bill O'Reilly jump all over them for NOT calling it Christmas.

So secular celebrants can't win either way.

I'm not Bill O'Reilly. If people want to say "happy holidays" to indicate something more generic and less religious, I'm fine with that. As a matter of fact, I would prefer that to insincere Christmas greetings. The problem we have with "happy holidays" is that many people feel compelled to replace "merry Christmas" with it in order to be politically correct. That is also insincere. If you mean "merry Christmas," say it. If you mean "happy holidays," then say that.

And no, those who do not acknowledge the birth of Christ are not celebrating Christmas at all, they are celebrating the season or the "holidays." If the only reason for me to say that I celebrate Hanukkah is because my birthday typically falls during that holiday, I'm really not celebrating the holiday at all. As it is, I do acknowledge the miracle that God performed, which is the reason for Hanukkah. The fact that it often coincides with my birthday makes it a double-whammy for me.
  The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of comfort and convenience, but where he stands at times of challenge and controversy.

--Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.