Author Topic: TOTW 16/07: Did Alma Jr. know Ennis was gay?  (Read 74511 times)

Offline brokeplex

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Re: TOTW 16/07: Did Alma Jr. know Ennis was gay?
« Reply #130 on: December 08, 2007, 09:26:56 pm »
I'm not sure about how much she perceived of her father's feelings for Jack. We really didn't see enough of her to really know. I think that Jr loved her father very much, and was jealous of other women who took an interest in him. The scene with Cassie in the bar tells us that much. Would she have been accepting of her fathers relationship with Jack. I don't think that we can know, except to say that Jr is a bright young lady,and she wants her fathers's love. Maybe she could go over that divide and embrace him as a gay man. Or maybe denial would set in like it does with many people who love gay men and women but just can't make it over that divide.

Offline cricket99999

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Re: TOTW 16/07: Did Alma Jr. know Ennis was gay?
« Reply #131 on: December 08, 2007, 11:54:17 pm »
I'm not sure about how much she perceived of her father's feelings for Jack. We really didn't see enough of her to really know.

I disagree.

When I try to look at the screenwriters’ choices, it reinforces my belief that Junior knew.

I often wonder about the storytellers’ motivations for choosing this-or-that dialogue.  Is it a part of the plot, or is it character development, or is it a red herring, or is it simply a mistake; an extraneous bit that never managed to get edited out but in the end contributes nothing.

In this film, nearly every detail seems to contribute something of value. 

And what would be the value of Junior being jealous of Cassie? 

It isn’t important to the story. 

She *is* jealous, of course, but that’s not a valuable piece of the plot here; she’s portrayed as such simply because it’s fitting—she’s not getting private time with her father.   

But to me the point of the scene is to show her connection to him.  She observes him quietly.  She's concerned, and she's wondering.  She strongly suspects the truth about him, even though he's not the 'type' at all.   

To me, there’s only one way the writers would include the scene with Junior and Cassie.  It’s not to show that Junior is jealous (most children of divorce are, under such circumstances) or that Cassie is pushy or Ennis can’t dance (we knew these things).  It’s to show that Junior knows (or will, by the end of the trailer scene).  As Cassie drags Ennis to the dance floor, she’s studying them because she’s questioning his sexuality and trying to understand. 

We see this because we’re meant to sense her growing awareness about her father.  Isn’t that the reason writers chose to show the deep connection between father and daughter?   Why would they do this, except to suggest Junior’s awareness of her father’s secrets?       

Offline brokeplex

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Re: TOTW 16/07: Did Alma Jr. know Ennis was gay?
« Reply #132 on: December 09, 2007, 02:37:58 pm »
The writers wished to show the deep connection between Ennis and Jr in order to flesh out his Ennis's private life that allows the viewer to have more sympathy with Ennis. That certainly worked on me, when I saw that Ennis clearly loved and was loved by his daughters my opinion of him began to modify.

Whether or not Jr suspects that Ennis has a romantic connection with Jack is not explored. Jr simply is a bright young lady who loves her father, and doesn't really want to see him marry Cassie.

Had the writers wished to show that Jr had suspicions about Ennis's sexuality, they would have created dialog where Jr brings up the subject of Jack to Ennis's face and then they would discuss his friendship with Jack.  Alma knew about Ennis's sexuality after seeing Jack kissing Ennis, and later the dialog reflected this in several places, including the "Jack Nasty" scene. 

Offline Artiste

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Re: TOTW 16/07: Did Alma Jr. know Ennis was gay?
« Reply #133 on: December 09, 2007, 03:07:46 pm »
Thanks criket99999, and thanks brokeplex!!

You say this cricket concerning Alma Jr. then at the time Jack comes to see Ennis who wrote about his divorse, but Ennis can not see him since he has his two girls that weekend: She may have even heard the exact conversation, word-for-word.  For any other listener, it might not arouse suspicion.  But Alma Jr. is consistently portrayed as someone who would take note.  About her father, she is shown to be concerned, quietly observant, and understanding.  Watching Ennis and Jack that day, I believe she began to wonder about their relationship.   
 

...

May I agree with you on that. I think that Jr. was that way very much like her father!! Indeed, I am thinking that she is maybe bi, even!! At least, a decent straight person, respecting her father and Jack as bi or gay men!!
...

Brokeplex, you think that maybe Jr. is bi??

Hugs, hugs!!

Offline brokeplex

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Re: TOTW 16/07: Did Alma Jr. know Ennis was gay?
« Reply #134 on: December 09, 2007, 03:42:26 pm »
Sorry Artiste, but you are taking a head first leap of logic off  a high dive into the shallow end of the swimming pool. I think I'm going to not follow you there.

Offline Katie77

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Re: TOTW 16/07: Did Alma Jr. know Ennis was gay?
« Reply #135 on: December 09, 2007, 05:44:45 pm »
Brokeplex, you think that maybe Jr. is bi??

Hugs, hugs!!

YOU have got to be bloody joking.......
Being happy doesn't mean everything is perfect.

It means you've decided to see beyond the imperfection

Offline Artiste

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Re: TOTW 16/07: Did Alma Jr. know Ennis was gay?
« Reply #136 on: December 09, 2007, 06:14:57 pm »
Thanks Katie77, and thanks brokeplex!!

You two make me laugh, with a happy smile!!

No, I am not joking! And wish you and brokeplex, and others to anwser to that, please.

Think about it, at least!!

Hugs! Hugs!

Offline LauraGigs

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Re: TOTW 16/07: Did Alma Jr. know Ennis was gay?
« Reply #137 on: December 09, 2007, 07:53:26 pm »
Quote from: Artiste
Indeed, I am thinking that she is maybe bi, even!! At least, a decent straight person, respecting her father and Jack as bi or gay men!!

I would go with your other choice: "a decent straight person". 

There are a lot of them out there, Artiste!

Offline Katie77

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Re: TOTW 16/07: Did Alma Jr. know Ennis was gay?
« Reply #138 on: December 09, 2007, 10:50:04 pm »
I would go with your other choice: "a decent straight person". 

There are a lot of them out there, Artiste!

Ditto Laura......I too am getting sick of his reference to decent straight people.....as if they are in a minority......
Being happy doesn't mean everything is perfect.

It means you've decided to see beyond the imperfection

Offline brokeplex

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Re: TOTW 16/07: Did Alma Jr. know Ennis was gay?
« Reply #139 on: December 09, 2007, 11:09:38 pm »


You two make me laugh, with a happy smile!!


And you make me smile and laugh too Artiste, just stay away from diving into the the shallow end of the swimming pool !

Merry Christmas Artiste!