Author Topic: How Did Jack Die?  (Read 31212 times)

Offline Rayn

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Re: How Did Jack Die?
« Reply #50 on: October 30, 2006, 09:47:28 am »
I don't think Jack was depressed. 

Recall that he told Ennis he was seeing a woman on the sly and he also told his father that he was going to bring a rancher neighbor with him, build a cabin and help him with the ranch.  That rancher was Randall and Jack had to be pretty happy with Randall if he told his father he was gonna bring him home with him.   

Jack was unhappy with the way things were with Ennis, but in the end, he was exploring other ways and other people as alternatives to Ennis even if he still loved Ennis.  He did love him, but was beginning to see the hopelessness of being with him any longer.   

I think suicide was the last thing on Jack's mind.  It seemed clear to me, that Jack was looking for someone who could love him more openly and completely than Ennis, he was looking for healthy alternatives to an unhealthy relationship, which is, I'm sad to say, what he had with Ennis in the end.

That's how I saw and read it.

Peace,
Rayn
« Last Edit: October 30, 2006, 10:01:27 am by Rayn »

Offline Lynne

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Re: How Did Jack Die?
« Reply #51 on: November 26, 2006, 10:50:39 pm »
People are talking about just this on IMDb tonight :)  So poignant.
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Offline David

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Re: How Did Jack Die?
« Reply #52 on: December 03, 2006, 11:52:28 pm »
I don't think Jack was depressed. 

Recall that he told Ennis he was seeing a woman on the sly and he also told his father that he was going to bring a rancher neighbor with him, build a cabin and help him with the ranch.  That rancher was Randall and Jack had to be pretty happy with Randall if he told his father he was gonna bring him home with him.   

Jack was unhappy with the way things were with Ennis, but in the end, he was exploring other ways and other people as alternatives to Ennis even if he still loved Ennis.  He did love him, but was beginning to see the hopelessness of being with him any longer.   

I think suicide was the last thing on Jack's mind.  It seemed clear to me, that Jack was looking for someone who could love him more openly and completely than Ennis, he was looking for healthy alternatives to an unhealthy relationship, which is, I'm sad to say, what he had with Ennis in the end.

That's how I saw and read it.

Peace,
Rayn

Rayn you are 100% right.    Jack was not depressed to the point of suicide.    Unhappy with the fact he couldn't have Ennis 100% of the time, thats a given. 

"He drank alot"  Yeah.  I can see that.   He was trapped in his "good life" in Texas.   In good life I mean financially.   Plus he had a son too.      I almost feel that if he hadn't had gotten married to Lureen, that he'd have eventually moved back to Wyoming to be closer to Ennis.   

No doubt that Jack was "happy enough" with Randall.  They had been getting together since 1978 right?    Thats 5 years together.    No wonder Jack mentioned him to his father.

As for that tire?    Not an accident.   Don't forget, Jack had money to buy new trucks all the time.   New trucks mean new tires.   New tires don't blow off the rim.

My guess is that Jack did indeed drink alot because he was unhappy that he was finally going to leave Ennis.      Jack was also known to be horny enough to look for sex in the wrong places at times.    Could Jacks secret have gotten out?      If Jack had a few too many drinks and made a pass at the wrong person, a violent homophobic redneck, then sure, that could have led to his attack.     And an attacker or attackers in a small town would definately try to cover it up to look like an accident.     Lureen was probably pitied in town if people thought her husband was queer.   Why not make Jacks death look like an accident to save her from the humiliation of her husband being beat to death as a queer?    She may have not known the truth of how he died.   Or she she didn't want to know the truth and easily accepted the tire iron story.

Offline Kerry

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Re: How Did Jack Die?
« Reply #53 on: December 04, 2006, 03:27:03 am »
 :'(   Jack and Ennis will live forever in my heart   :'(
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Offline ifyoucantfixit

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Re: How Did Jack Die?
« Reply #54 on: December 04, 2006, 04:27:21 am »
Clinical depression can certainly drive one to suicide, and what clinical depression is in my experience is the utter loss of all hope.  Doesn't matter how positive, vibrant, and full of life one is - once that sets in, the only thing many believe will end the pain of that loss is death.

My husband had a good pilot friend he played tennis with from time to time.  He shot himself to death in his bedroom about a year ago.  He was going through a divorce and had some financial problems and issues with a new girlfriend.  But by all other accounts, he had a pretty good life, was handsome and athletic and vigorous - all of it.  When a mutual friend called to say he had, with the police, found him, I was at first shocked.  But then I thought of little things Ed said about him from time to time - "Well, he drinks a lot."  (Sound familiar?)  And "He says he's been having trouble sleeping lately."  I even asked him once if he'd broached the subject with him that he might be depressed and need to see someone.  He said he did and he chewed him out for it.  "No shrink's telling me there's something wrong with my head.  Nothing I can't fix myself with more exercise and sleep."  Thank you, Tom Cruise.

Anyway, yes, I think it's possible.  I certainly see Jack as reaching a point where he really didn't give a s*** about much anymore.  Lureen's saying "He drank a lot" nearly broke my heart in two on actually my second viewing.  I don't see him as deliberately, purposefully killing himself, but I do see him as not caring whether he lived or died at some point.
  regards your statement, about tom cruise,,,he is a twit...he calls other people glib.  he is in a position to do so much harm to people with his stupid remarks.  no amount of money or stardom is qualifying him to be a spokesman for anything of a mental healt person..........i couldnt believe he had brooke shields as a guest at his wedding...she is certainly a bigger person than he will ever be...as some one that has lost a beloved family member to suicide, and mental illness, im not sure what the answer is for that problem god knows, if i  would have known what to do i would have done that...but that stupid idiot certainly doesnt know what he can do to others that hear what he has to say and acts accordingly.....as to the jack thing, it never occurred to me he may have done that, i felt like he was killed, but that is just my opinion.  partly because of ennis's idea, and also the way that lureen sounded like she was telling a story,that had been rehearsed in order to make the truth of it seem acceptable as the story she told.....janice
'



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Offline JT

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Re: How Did Jack Die?
« Reply #55 on: December 04, 2006, 05:53:12 pm »
Rayn you are 100% right.    Jack was not depressed to the point of suicide.    Unhappy with the fact he couldn't have Ennis 100% of the time, thats a given. 

"He drank alot"  Yeah.  I can see that.   He was trapped in his "good life" in Texas.   In good life I mean financially.   Plus he had a son too.      I almost feel that if he hadn't had gotten married to Lureen, that he'd have eventually moved back to Wyoming to be closer to Ennis.   

No doubt that Jack was "happy enough" with Randall.  They had been getting together since 1978 right?    Thats 5 years together.    No wonder Jack mentioned him to his father.

As for that tire?    Not an accident.   Don't forget, Jack had money to buy new trucks all the time.   New trucks mean new tires.   New tires don't blow off the rim.

My guess is that Jack did indeed drink alot because he was unhappy that he was finally going to leave Ennis.      Jack was also known to be horny enough to look for sex in the wrong places at times.    Could Jacks secret have gotten out?      If Jack had a few too many drinks and made a pass at the wrong person, a violent homophobic redneck, then sure, that could have led to his attack.     And an attacker or attackers in a small town would definately try to cover it up to look like an accident.     Lureen was probably pitied in town if people thought her husband was queer.   Why not make Jacks death look like an accident to save her from the humiliation of her husband being beat to death as a queer?    She may have not known the truth of how he died.   Or she she didn't want to know the truth and easily accepted the tire iron story.

That's a very good point.  Jack was a little reckless sometimes which might lead to his attack.  I still think suicide is a possibility but not very likely.  This makes me think more that he was murdered, and yes it is more sad to have him murdered than to be killed in an accident.

Offline Mikaela

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Re: How Did Jack Die?
« Reply #56 on: December 04, 2006, 06:09:05 pm »
How come I've not voted in this one before?!?  :o

Anyway, I voted for what I do feel in my heart happened - a gay bashing attack.

But in the short story and the film both, I also think we aren't meant to ever know for sure.

Offline Brown Eyes

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Re: How Did Jack Die?
« Reply #57 on: February 21, 2007, 10:38:34 pm »
bumping because this was a really interesting discussion
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Offline Toast

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Re: How Did Jack Die?
« Reply #58 on: March 26, 2007, 09:42:00 am »
Bump

Annie Proulx wrote:

Ennis didn't know about the accident for months until his postcard to Jack saying that November still looked like the first chance came back stamped DECEASED.


Offline Rayn

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Re: How Did Jack Die?
« Reply #59 on: June 11, 2007, 09:50:14 am »
Hello Everyone,

It's been awhile since I posted anything on here about Brokeback Mt, but here I am again.  Thanks DavidinHartford for agreeing with me 100%... that's always a good feeling, I mean it.

      Now, I 'm trying to get it together to go to Alberta for the "Pilgrimage" and it hit me, like I know it has others, Jack isn't dead.  Jack never existed, nor did Ennis.   They 're characters in a story.  And then I think, wait a minute, I'm fixin' ta travel from Korea, not just to see friends and family, but to make a Pilgrimage to Alberta to see where Jack and Ennis lived...  ah.....  YEAH, LIVED....Then I realize where they are, in the minds of millions, and more, they are alive in many men who lived as they did in the past and remember how far we have come as a human rights minority.  Jack and Ennis stepped into Annie's mind then on to the page and into film because they are real to her as anyone you or I know well in our own lives.

     They call us like old friends who want to visit and spend time together (& I watch the film again).  And now because of where they live, people from all parts of the country and world are taking the time and money to get to know each other, have new experiences, make new friendships, perhaps some that will last a long time.  I sit back a moment and marvel at the power of the artist.  It is the power of literature and the magic a good writer works in the heart and mind that calls us to stronger connections with one another, so in that wonderful way, Jack is still with us, Ennis too...

Hope to see ya soon,
Rayn