Author Topic: The Imaginarium of Doctor Parnassus  (Read 60680 times)

Offline Mikaela

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Re: The Imaginarium of Doctor Parnassus
« Reply #250 on: February 07, 2010, 03:50:43 pm »

I didn't think the desirable outcome of a rich consumer life was the moral of the story.  I  have high heels, don't you?  I shop, don't you?  I don't have a husband and kids, but a lot of friends do.  What Valentina had in her bag was a present for their daughter.  Is buying a gift for one's child so materialistic?  I don't think the moral of the story is to desire a rich consumer's life, but a normal life.

A normal life, looking and dressing like a supermodel, apparently with enough cash to spend at high-fashion malls. Yeah, who wouldn't desire that kind of normalcy?  *shrug*  It undermines the critique of the "Tonys" of the world IMO.

Quote
Allusions to Heath Ledger's character since he was first called "George" as in George Bush, then "Tony" as in Tony Blair and how Gilliam's personal opinion on politics also colored the character.
 

This is interesting, I didn't know the Tony name came from Blair, but I find it very apt. Tony Blair increasingly proved himself to have exactly that smarmy, sleezy type of con-man charm and self-infatuation.

Offline delalluvia

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Re: The Imaginarium of Doctor Parnassus
« Reply #251 on: February 07, 2010, 04:49:01 pm »
SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS




A normal life, looking and dressing like a supermodel, apparently with enough cash to spend at high-fashion malls. Yeah, who wouldn't desire that kind of normalcy?  *shrug*

There are all kinds of 'normal' lives.  That was just one of them.  Personally I didn't think Valentina looked like a supermodel and her dress at the end looked suburban and tacky awful, certainly not 'high fashion'.

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It undermines the critique of the "Tonys" of the world IMO.

I didn't think so at all.  She was a middle class woman meeting her husband and child at a nice restaurant to celebrate their child's birthday and she bought her child a toy.

Compared to Tony in his Armani suits, courting presidents, the extremely wealthy, the media and music industry for a charity that was a step to power, money and glory for him while being a cover for organ-selling from these homeless children?

The two aren't even close IMO.

Quote
This is interesting, I didn't know the Tony name came from Blair, but I find it very apt. Tony Blair increasingly proved himself to have exactly that smarmy, sleezy type of con-man charm and self-infatuation.
 

Dunno, I'd have to know more about British politics than I do.

Offline Wayne

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Re: The Imaginarium of Doctor Parnassus
« Reply #252 on: February 07, 2010, 05:56:28 pm »
re: Tony Blair, the newspaper headlines said

TONY LIAR

which looks a bit like Tony Blair.
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Offline Monika

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Re: The Imaginarium of Doctor Parnassus
« Reply #253 on: February 07, 2010, 06:25:15 pm »
re: Tony Blair, the newspaper headlines said

TONY LIAR

which looks a bit like Tony Blair.
You got a good eye for details there.

Interesting and very apt comparison.

Offline ifyoucantfixit

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Re: The Imaginarium of Doctor Parnassus
« Reply #254 on: February 09, 2010, 04:15:58 pm »
On IMDb someone brought up the other interwoven thread of Gilliam's movie.  The socio-political side of the movie.  You might go and read it.  It has something to do with the British government, the institutionalizing of charity, and even allusions to Heath Ledger's character since he was first called "George" as in George Bush, then "Tony" as in Tony Blair and how Gilliam's personal opinion on politics also colored the character.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------                          MY SPOILERS


I personally think that is a very astute observation.  Since I tried not to place SPOILERS in my comments, I just gave my opions only.    I thought that
Johnny Depp most captiured Heaths character and way of moving and smiling, sort of beguilingly.  He was an extension of the character.  You were as yet
unable to see the true depth of his evil underneath. 
  The other thing that no one has mentioned is the flute in his throat.  He kept it on his person at all times.  Obviously he had needed it many time, in
order to keep it so handy all the time.
   My take on the moral or point if you will was not so much that the consumer life is the desired one.   Rather that some people are always wishing
they could run away from home, and join the Circus.  While in this case it is probably true, that many people in the Circus with all its daily grind and
never ending turmoil desire to run away from the Circus, and have a normal and quiet life.
« Last Edit: March 03, 2010, 04:17:37 am by ifyoucantfixit »



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Offline Front-Ranger

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Re: The Imaginarium of Doctor Parnassus
« Reply #255 on: February 10, 2010, 09:46:20 am »
SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS

I didn't think so at all.  She was a middle class woman meeting her husband and child at a nice restaurant to celebrate their child's birthday and she bought her child a toy.

Compared to Tony in his Armani suits, courting presidents, the extremely wealthy, the media and music industry for a charity that was a step to power, money and glory for him while being a cover for organ-selling from these homeless children?
I agree about the ending. It was a feel-good ending for me...Valentina had found the normal life that she always wanted.

I'm really enjoying this discussion and think I must see the film again, there's so much I missed! Fortunately it's still playing around town.
May 2019 be better for us all.

Offline delalluvia

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Re: The Imaginarium of Doctor Parnassus
« Reply #256 on: February 10, 2010, 08:53:02 pm »
SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS







  The other thing that no one has mentioned is the flute in his throat.  He kept it on his person at all times.  Obviously he had needed it many time, in order to keep it so handy all the time.

Which just goes to show how often he'd been lynched.  So many times, he's prepared.  The Tarot card pretty much spells that out.

There's plenty of symbolism in the story.  The flute I saw as indicative of Tony being a "pied piper" or symbolic of the time to 'pay the piper'.

Antoine in his stage persona of Mercury is symbolic as a psychopomp - a guide of souls.  He even has wings as he swings in the harness to rescue the 'dead' Tony.  In his persona as Eve, as one who is responsible for the Fall and brings her/his beloved out of Eden and into the Real World.

Tony's Venetian mask - the one with the long nose - is a traditional one.  It's called a 'Zanni" mask - representing someone who is buffoon, a fool, a con man, rogue, one who is self-absorbed with his own basic needs.  And of course, it's also about someone not being what he appears to be.

The name Parnassus, Valentina's name, the bells she wears, the symbolism just goes on and on.

Offline belbbmfan

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Re: The Imaginarium of Doctor Parnassus
« Reply #257 on: February 11, 2010, 02:49:03 am »
The movie opened here yesterday. My husband and I were planning to go. All arrangements were made, but then the weather turned on us, again(!) Snow and below zero temperatures made us change our minds pretty quickly.

The movie got some pretty bad reviews.  :-\ Although all the reviewers seemed to agree that adding the three actors after Heath's death worked surprisingly well.

There was in interview with Terry Gilliam on the radio yesterday in which he told a remarkable story about Heath. During the shooting of the scene where Tony goes through the mirror for the last time, Heath was trying out some new approach or something and Terry noticed and he said 'Hey, stop doing a Johnny Depp!' Heath could laugh about the fact that he had been 'caught'.

Hearing that made me sad, I have to say.  :(
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Offline Sophia

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Re: The Imaginarium of Doctor Parnassus
« Reply #258 on: February 11, 2010, 07:19:10 pm »
The movie opened here yesterday. My husband and I were planning to go. All arrangements were made, but then the weather turned on us, again(!) Snow and below zero temperatures made us change our minds pretty quickly.

The movie got some pretty bad reviews.  :-\ Although all the reviewers seemed to agree that adding the three actors after Heath's death worked surprisingly well.

There was in interview with Terry Gilliam on the radio yesterday in which he told a remarkable story about Heath. During the shooting of the scene where Tony goes through the mirror for the last time, Heath was trying out some new approach or something and Terry noticed and he said 'Hey, stop doing a Johnny Depp!' Heath could laugh about the fact that he had been 'caught'.

Hearing that made me sad, I have to say.  :(


thank you very much for sharing. I must say it made me sad to, but at the same time glad to hear something new, about heath.

Offline Front-Ranger

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Re: The Imaginarium of Doctor Parnassus
« Reply #259 on: February 15, 2010, 11:59:46 am »
So, did you get to see the movie, Fabienne or anyone? What did you think? I hope to see it one more time before it leaves the theaters!
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