Author Topic: Foreshadowing  (Read 8102 times)

Offline Brown Eyes

  • BetterMost Supporter!
  • BetterMost Moderator
  • The BetterMost 10,000 Post Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 10,377
Re: Foreshadowing
« Reply #10 on: February 13, 2008, 01:48:07 pm »
Well... there may be no Valentine's Day in BBM.  It's actually very hard to imagine how Ennis or Jack would react to that holiday or how they would even see it as relevant to their relationship.

But!  I do think the filmmakers include a little visual reference to "cupid's darts" towards the very beginning of the movie.  When Ennis and Jack are at the bar, there's a dart board behind Ennis's head with darts aimed as if they've come from Jack's direction.  And, of course, Jack is essentially sitting in a "ray of sunshine."  Both of these things are pretty over-determined romantic ideas.  So, I think along with the spark from the shared cigarette lighter... this scene is supposed to signal the intitial sparks of attraction (how ever subconscious they may be at this point).  It's also important to note that the darts in this early scene are essentially in the same position as the block of knives in Ennis's trailer at the end.


the world was asleep to our latent fuss - bowie

Offline serious crayons

  • Moderator
  • The BetterMost 10,000 Post Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 22,757
Re: Foreshadowing
« Reply #11 on: February 13, 2008, 02:45:43 pm »
Good observation, Amanda!

And I agree that there is no Valentine's Day in BBM because showing Jack and Ennis on VD wouldn't advance the plot in any way. They wouldn't be exchanging valentines. It would be just an ordinary day for both.

But then, there's no Christmas, New Year's, Easter, President's Day, Mother's Day, Memorial Day, Father's Day, Flag Day, Labor Day, Columbus Day or Veteran's Day either, and I haven't felt the movie was remiss for not including them.




Offline Brown Eyes

  • BetterMost Supporter!
  • BetterMost Moderator
  • The BetterMost 10,000 Post Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 10,377
Re: Foreshadowing
« Reply #12 on: February 13, 2008, 10:15:02 pm »
Good observation, Amanda!

And I agree that there is no Valentine's Day in BBM because showing Jack and Ennis on VD wouldn't advance the plot in any way. They wouldn't be exchanging valentines. It would be just an ordinary day for both.

Yes, absolutely.  I certainly don't think either Ennis or Jack would have ever thought about their relationship in the context of something as conventional as Valentine's Day.  However, the more I actually think about this the more I find myself thinking about the ways in which both Ennis and Jack did demonstrate romantic tendencies (maybe even despite themselves).  The thing that I keep thinking about is Ennis's delight in receiving Jack's first postcard.  Granted, he's excited because this is the first contact in 4 years... but still there's something recognizably romantic in the way he's registering excitement over that card.  It's sort of easy to imagine standing in his shoes and imagining the kind of giddy (romantic) excitement that comes with the gesture or receiving something in the mail from a love-interest.  I mean, the constant exchange of postcards... on the one hand is a practical aspect of their relationship (that in a sad way facilitates all the deception and the "hiding" that the boys do over the years... the postcards and "fishing trips" provide their cover)... but at the same time, there's something very sweet about the desire to send something/receive something like that to/from a lover.  They're not exactly love letters... but they're like bizarre little stand-ins for the idea of a love letter.  And, I'm sure receiving the cards was always a jolt of excitement and relief for both Jack and Ennis during their daily lives in Childress and Riverton.

Also, Jack's desire to steal Ennis's shirt and keep it hidden and unwashed for all those years is an undoubtedly romantic urge/ gesture.  I think the undeniably romantic gesture of preserving the shirt and then pairing it with his own, is one of the reasons that finding the doubled-shirts hits Ennis so hard.


Quote
But then, there's no Christmas, New Year's, Easter, President's Day, Mother's Day, Memorial Day, Father's Day, Flag Day, Labor Day, Columbus Day or Veteran's Day either, and I haven't felt the movie was remiss for not including them.


 :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:  Good point.  It is sort of interesting to note that the two holidays that are represented are so solidly nationalistic/patriotic/American.  I wonder if there was an underlying reasoning for choosing to depict the 4th of July and Thanksgiving rather than, say, a religious holiday (or something that might be more universal)?

the world was asleep to our latent fuss - bowie

Offline serious crayons

  • Moderator
  • The BetterMost 10,000 Post Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 22,757
Re: Foreshadowing
« Reply #13 on: February 16, 2008, 09:36:18 pm »
Yes, absolutely.  I certainly don't think either Ennis or Jack would have ever thought about their relationship in the context of something as conventional as Valentine's Day.  However, the more I actually think about this the more I find myself thinking about the ways in which both Ennis and Jack did demonstrate romantic tendencies (maybe even despite themselves).

Yes, I agree. I just can't see them exchanging frilly valentines, though. Or even manly cowboy valentines!  :laugh: Because they wouldn't want to risk anything that open.

But I can imagine them pining for each other that day.

Quote
It is sort of interesting to note that the two holidays that are represented are so solidly nationalistic/patriotic/American.  I wonder if there was an underlying reasoning for choosing to depict the 4th of July and Thanksgiving rather than, say, a religious holiday (or something that might be more universal)?

I've always assumed the 4th of July was a deliberate attempt to play on the "cowboy as American icon of masculinity" myth and its ironies in Ennis' situation. Also, I think there are deliberate parallels between the two sets of holidays. We don't see Jack celebrate 4th of July per se, but I think we can assume the Jimbo incident happened somewhere around that time.

So in the earlier July 4 (or thereabouts) scenes, both Ennis and Jack have their masculinity challenged or questioned in some way. Ennis "wins" by beating up the bikers and Jack "loses" by getting rejected by Jimbo.

In the later Thanksgiving scenes, once again both men have their masculinity challenged or questioned. This time the outcomes are reversed; Ennis attempts to solve the situation with a physical fight, which he loses. Whereas Jack "wins" in a war of words when he tells LD off.

I think the parallels are deliberate, though I'm not entirely sure what it's supposed to say. Why did Ennis win at first, but lose later? Why did Jack lose at first, but win later? Was the ultimately greater effectiveness of verbal rather than physical conflict intended to make a point?



 

Offline brokeplex

  • BetterMost Supporter!
  • BetterMost 5000+ Posts Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 7,247
  • LCARS
Re: Foreshadowing
« Reply #14 on: February 16, 2008, 09:44:03 pm »


I think the parallels are deliberate, though I'm not entirely sure what it's supposed to say. Why did Ennis win at first, but lose later? Why did Jack lose at first, but win later? Was the ultimately greater effectiveness of verbal rather than physical conflict intended to make a point?
 

I'm not sure why, but it does set up more parallels in their lives and points us in the direction that the film is a palindrome. thanks for pointing these out.

Offline Sammi

  • Sr. Ranch Hand
  • ***
  • Posts: 56
  • Where bluebirds sing and there's a whiskey spring
Re: Foreshadowing
« Reply #15 on: November 27, 2009, 03:17:50 pm »
On the topic of forshadowing... When they are camping in '67 (their reunion), during the scene where Ennis is talking about "This thing grabs a hold of us, in the wrong place, wrong time", the camera shows Jack with his eyes looking downward.  And as soon as Ennis says the words "We're dead" Jacks eyes look up.  I think the way this is filmed, for Jack to raise his eyes up at that moment is pretty symbolic.   I took it as a bit of foreshadowing, like Jack was being warned of his own death. 

I also have thought that was the moment that Jack realized how fearful Ennis was , but I don't think Jack shared the same fears.  The look on his face when Ennis says "we're dead" is almost like "who the hell cares".  I think Jack would have rather lived the way he wanted and if it got him killed then at least he had enjoyed the sweet life for a while.  I think he would have prefered that over all those years of anguish and staying "safe".

Offline Front-Ranger

  • BetterMost Moderator
  • The BetterMost 10,000 Post Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 30,326
  • Brokeback got us good.
Re: Foreshadowing
« Reply #16 on: December 01, 2009, 02:48:23 pm »
I think the way this is filmed, for Jack to raise his eyes up at that moment is pretty symbolic.   I took it as a bit of foreshadowing, like Jack was being warned of his own death. 

I also have thought that was the moment that Jack realized how fearful Ennis was , but I don't think Jack shared the same fears.  The look on his face when Ennis says "we're dead" is almost like "who the hell cares".  I think Jack would have rather lived the way he wanted and if it got him killed then at least he had enjoyed the sweet life for a while.  I think he would have prefered that over all those years of anguish and staying "safe".
I agree with you a hunerd percent, Sammi! Another instance of foreshadowing that I think is pretty powerful is in the story, when it talks about the boneless blue sky, so blue that Jack thought he could "drown looking up." In this case, he predicted his own method of death. Ironically, Jack did not feel like suffocating his natural self, as you point out, but he did die by suffocation, through drowning, and it was Ennis who went on living a suffocated life. Sad.
"chewing gum and duct tape"