Author Topic: what do you believe?  (Read 76530 times)

Offline forsythia12

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Re: what do you believe?
« Reply #40 on: February 20, 2008, 01:04:45 am »
good to hear from you brokeplex!  keep posting.

Offline delalluvia

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Re: what do you believe?
« Reply #41 on: February 20, 2008, 01:59:33 am »
ok I understand,

 I guess I am a "cafeteria" Baptist. I have no qualms about picking and choosing the beliefs which are compatible with my conscience and rejecting those that conflict with me. But I understand that many people with sincere religious beliefs can not do this. Some of the doctines and interpretations of scripture creates a conflict in many women, it also creates a conflict with gays.

That's pretty much it.  I had a related discussion on another board once. 

The topic was "Can a person be X and a Christian?" (X does not refer to being gay in my example)

I voted no, because X was specifically forbidden by the Bible, not hinted at, flat out "be this and die".  Quite a few people on the board opposed me because they too were 'cafeteria Christians' and believed X was OK and compatible with Christianity.  One person who sided with me, agreed with me but for a different reason I thought quite interesting. 

She said X couldn't be compatible with Christianity simply because of language, understanding and communication.

When we say 'Christian' those familiar with the religion have an idea of what a Christian should be.  We all hear the word and have the same basic understanding.  To add something unassociated with Christianity to the definition of a Christian and you suddenly change the understanding of the word and communication falls apart.

It would be like saying, "I'm a vegetarian, but I eat meat 3 times a week" or "I'm a Christian Scientist and I have Blue Cross."

The word no longer has an understandable meaning.   

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Maybe it is because in my denomination a doctrine known as the "Priesthood of the Believer" is taught. Essentially that encourages a personal relationship with Christ without passing thru doctrine or ministers.

How very pagan.  ;)

Offline forsythia12

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Re: what do you believe?
« Reply #42 on: February 20, 2008, 02:26:55 am »
yes, you are very right to say that the meaning of christianity, the definition, and all that it involves has changed drastically over time, as with many many new churches under the 'christian' umbrella.  you make a very good poing delalluvia.
thank you for that.

Offline brokeplex

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Re: what do you believe?
« Reply #43 on: February 20, 2008, 01:52:42 pm »
That's pretty much it.  I had a related discussion on another board once. 

The topic was "Can a person be X and a Christian?" (X does not refer to being gay in my example)

I voted no, because X was specifically forbidden by the Bible, not hinted at, flat out "be this and die".  Quite a few people on the board opposed me because they too were 'cafeteria Christians' and believed X was OK and compatible with Christianity.  One person who sided with me, agreed with me but for a different reason I thought quite interesting. 

She said X couldn't be compatible with Christianity simply because of language, understanding and communication.

When we say 'Christian' those familiar with the religion have an idea of what a Christian should be.  We all hear the word and have the same basic understanding.  To add something unassociated with Christianity to the definition of a Christian and you suddenly change the understanding of the word and communication falls apart.

It would be like saying, "I'm a vegetarian, but I eat meat 3 times a week" or "I'm a Christian Scientist and I have Blue Cross."

The word no longer has an understandable meaning.   

How very pagan.  ;)

could I be a pagan at heart? well, if the pagans will sing the old gospel hymns from the Broadman Hymnal, I'll join up! I think the hymns are about the only thing that draws me back to church every 6 months or so, and DL's prompting.

Offline Artiste

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Re: what do you believe?
« Reply #44 on: February 20, 2008, 07:58:20 pm »
I saw many different parts of Italy last night on TV... on a French channel in France, and was surprised to find out about religion(s) and art there!! But in all the towns or cities, in ONLY one  NUDE art was allowed - otherwise, the popes, etc., killed you?? !!

Religious believes did vary very much in Italy and the rest of Europe.

It was I think in only one city in Italy where you could draw, paint, or sculpt a nude body, without being murdered for it!! That became the Renaissance!

One man (was it the King in Spain? living in Italy) built a mile long corridor so he could see not only nudes sculptures, but other such art, walking from one end of it to the other, so he would NOT be killed!!

Maybe one can build that now, since many countries or religions do not allow an artist to create nude art to-day? Or will it come to that (even in the USA, England, France, etc., ), since a parent can NOT even take photos of his/her nude child (infant) anymore without police bringing you to court for that in Canada??

To me, every human is nude!! So, why are certain religions and other institutions or peoples or persons, against that??

Hugs!!


Offline delalluvia

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Re: what do you believe?
« Reply #45 on: February 20, 2008, 08:29:45 pm »
could I be a pagan at heart? well, if the pagans will sing the old gospel hymns from the Broadman Hymnal, I'll join up! I think the hymns are about the only thing that draws me back to church every 6 months or so, and DL's prompting.

Yep.  ;D

Nothing wrong with enjoying good music and a great deal of wonderful music is religious.  I personally enjoy Masses and Xmas music.  I don't have to be a Christian to enjoy it.  Hymns I really like I find new words for.  Some pagan sites have entire Xmas songs reworded back to celebrate a pagan holiday.

Offline brokeplex

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Re: what do you believe?
« Reply #46 on: February 20, 2008, 11:19:00 pm »
Yep.  ;D

Nothing wrong with enjoying good music and a great deal of wonderful music is religious.  I personally enjoy Masses and Xmas music.  I don't have to be a Christian to enjoy it.  Hymns I really like I find new words for.  Some pagan sites have entire Xmas songs reworded back to celebrate a pagan holiday.

I've always been interested in the fact that early Christianity expropriated pagan holidays, renamed them and made then central to the faith. Easter, and Christmas both have their roots in pagan holidays, which of course have their roots in the changing of the seasons : the solstices and equinoxes.

I have wanted to be at Stonehenge when the sun is lined up with the key stone, supposedly the light shines around the stones at an interesting angle. The people who built Stonehenge were I believe Druids and didn't they worship the changes of the seasons?

Offline delalluvia

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Re: what do you believe?
« Reply #47 on: February 20, 2008, 11:54:16 pm »
I've always been interested in the fact that early Christianity expropriated pagan holidays, renamed them and made then central to the faith. Easter, and Christmas both have their roots in pagan holidays, which of course have their roots in the changing of the seasons : the solstices and equinoxes.

Well, you can pretty much tick them all off.  Almost all of them were pagan holidays.  I also like to count off the so-called saints who were really gods/goddesses or other demigods that the Christians renamed and the famous churches that were built over pagan holy sites.  When I go to Rome next year, I plan on doing a tour of what some place used to be rather than what it is now.  Do you know that some people still leave bouquets of flowers where Julius Caesar was murdered?.  And I was really thrilled to read that when the last solar eclipse occurred over eastern Europe last year, people were rushing to greet it carrying tripods - an ancient gift to Apollo the sun god.  Some habits die hard.  ;D

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I have wanted to be at Stonehenge when the sun is lined up with the key stone, supposedly the light shines around the stones at an interesting angle. The people who built Stonehenge were I believe Druids and didn't they worship the changes of the seasons?

I wanted to be at Stonehenge during the fall equinox, but I missed it by a few days.  The Brits celebrate the summer equinox there with a Druid ceremony and a lot of partying.  However, everything I read is that the winter equinox is what was most important at Stonehenge.  Obviously if you're living off what you caught and grew the summer before, you're pretty anxious for the winter to end so you can get back to eating well.

No, standing stone circles in the British isles were built by pre-historic peoples - about 4-5000 years ago.  The Druids came later.  They have recently claimed it for their ancient ancestors, but no, it wasn't a Druid construct.  The Druids were a variant of animists, but not a lot is known about them since the Romans were so good at wiping out those troublemakers  ;)


Offline brokeplex

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Re: what do you believe?
« Reply #48 on: February 21, 2008, 12:31:30 am »
you sound like you are a classics scholar, I have a close friend I met in college was a classics scholar and then got tempted by Microsoft money and never went back.

Offline delalluvia

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Re: what do you believe?
« Reply #49 on: February 21, 2008, 01:01:11 am »
you sound like you are a classics scholar, I have a close friend I met in college was a classics scholar and then got tempted by Microsoft money and never went back.

Alas, I wanted to be, but I couldn't conquer my disinterest in teaching that goes hand in hand with any scholarly career.  So instead I focused on my science background, ran out of money and now I'm doing something not related to anything I'm interested in or studied for.  :P  I've always been interested in Greek/Roman ancient history, and I read a lot while I was researching my religion and got extremely interested in comparative religions.  And to this day, I'm still reading up on it.  I just this week picked up 3 books;  on Caananites, Minoan civilization and a revisionist look at Itha-Baal, queen of Israel, aka Jezebel.

A friend of a friend also majored in the classics.  Last I heard of him he was a high muckety muck at the I.R.S.