Author Topic: TOTW 05/08: What do you make of the "Maybe Texas?" scene?  (Read 28253 times)

Offline optom3

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Re: TOTW 05/08: What do you make of the "Maybe Texas?" scene?
« Reply #60 on: February 19, 2008, 07:55:07 pm »
I wonder how Ennis would have reacted if Jack had said, "No, it's not normal-normal is with you", "yes, she suspects there's someone else" and "no, I don't think anyone who sees me automatically knows". 

Would Ennis have moved to Texas!

I have pondered this as well.For once ,Ennis in the film appears to be showing some self awareness,albeit somewhat paranoid.If Jack had been more honest,who knows what may have transpired.Instead Ennis is left again feeling that it is only HIM who appears  to the outside world to be obviously gay, whilst the viewer knows otherwise.
Maybe a more honest answer from Jack would have alleviated some of the fears of Ennis.After all to him it must now seem Jack is well adjusted, and yet again he is the neurotic one.


I know I should not bring up the book ,but in the motel scene in the book ,Ennis has already pondered whether others are like them, and if so what do they do .(go to denver quips jack)   It is obviously something that preys on his mind.Not only that but he has obviously given the matter some consideration.For a man not overly prone to introspection this is quite revealing.

So on 2 occasions ,one in the book and one in the film,his serious and considered question has resulted in an almost flippant reply.I realise that thsi is part of the character of Jack,but how much more rewarding might have been the final outcome if his answer had been more considered. I realise this is only conjecture/wishful thinking. I just wonder, if Jack had admitted that he did feel people may have guessed ,and look hey Im still here alive, might that have been sufficient for Ennis to overcome his childhood "haunting" and take the plunge.

More wishful thinking,but then he would have been around to "protect" Jack from the incident. Ah well can't rewrite the whole thing,much as I may wish to!!!!
« Last Edit: February 20, 2008, 09:47:57 am by Penthesilea »

Offline Artiste

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Re: TOTW 05/08: What do you make of the "Maybe Texas?" scene?
« Reply #61 on: February 19, 2008, 08:00:06 pm »
I think that Jack did worry somewhat about what Lureen did think.

Do you?

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Offline BBM-Cat

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Re: TOTW 05/08: What do you make of the "Maybe Texas?" scene?
« Reply #62 on: February 19, 2008, 09:10:57 pm »
I love your point, BBM-Cat, that Jack's non-empathy is a big mistake.  Ennis truly feels alone in his dilemma (an island indeed), the perfect setup for him to get together with Cassie in the next scene.  How can Ennis refuse when the perfect cover (or at least her feet) falls right in his lap?

Thanks LauraGigs - you hit the nail on the head, empathy was certainly lacking. I always kind of cringe when I watch the 'Maybe Texas' scene, thinking Jack missed a big opportunity there. I don't think Jack displaying empathy and reassuring Ennis' fears would have ultimately changed anything as far as outcomes, but at least Ennis might not have felt so alone in his experience (rational or irrational). How I wish Jack had given just a tiny nod of acknowledgement or a soft 'yeah' to Ennis' questions about people 'knowing' or 'suspecting'. But as others have alluded that would have meant admitting to being queer.

And you're right, the perfect setup for Ennis to get together with Cassie.
Six-word Stories:  ~Jack: Lightning Flat, lightning love, flat denied   ~Ennis: Open space: flat tire, tire iron?

Offline Katie77

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Re: TOTW 05/08: What do you make of the "Maybe Texas?" scene?
« Reply #63 on: February 19, 2008, 11:24:34 pm »
I keep going back to the fact that Ennis was bottling all this up since the Thanksgiving argument with Alma.

He wanted a in-depth conversation with Jack, maybe he would have even told him about what Alma had said, told him about the "Jack Nasty".. maybe even find out if Laureen had ever said anything like that to Jack. Maybe even a warning to Jack, that Laureen might suspect too.

He had been bottling it all up, not being able to talk about it, he was hoping for something positive from Jack, I think. And of course, Jack's reply was NOT what he wanted.

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It means you've decided to see beyond the imperfection

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Re: TOTW 05/08: What do you make of the "Maybe Texas?" scene?
« Reply #64 on: February 20, 2008, 06:16:52 am »
Nice chatting with you too Bud!  It's a nice way to pass the time here at work. ::) ;D

Anyway, Randall is the guy on the bench with Jack.  Yes, I think Jack is sort of stunned by the whole turn of events at that dinner dance.   I think there's a lot of flirting between Jack and Randall at the table and then it is raised to the way-next level by Randall on the bench.  I'm sure there are a million things running through Jack's mind at that point.  One of which, may be "how does he know?".  But, I think he's also weighing his options about saying yes or no... and he's also probably freaked out that Randall happens to suggest fishing (since that's his big association with Ennis).

On the other hand, I think Jack has particularly good "gaydar"... so I think he had Randall figured out at the table. 

Ennis, on the other hand, during the main "maybe Texas" scene in question, seems to be (in part) worrying about "gaydar" in another way.  Worried about how people are starting to perceive him.  And, it really is interesting that here we almost hear Ennis admit that he understands that he's gay or at least "different."



Hey Janice!  I think this post is great.  I do think this scene illustrates just how much Ennis and Jack are stuck on their own issues and are almost speaking passed one another or at cross purposes.  This scene really strongly demonstrates how much of a strain their relationship is under given the conditions placed on it.




huh, my thought at that moment was that Jack was thinking of Ennis. Going to Mexico for a little relief is one thing....starting a new relationship with a man that knew him was different. to me it showed he was thinking of moving on from Ennis. and was very torn by the idea.

Offline Brown Eyes

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Re: TOTW 05/08: What do you make of the "Maybe Texas?" scene?
« Reply #65 on: February 20, 2008, 01:00:52 pm »
huh, my thought at that moment was that Jack was thinking of Ennis. Going to Mexico for a little relief is one thing....starting a new relationship with a man that knew him was different. to me it showed he was thinking of moving on from Ennis. and was very torn by the idea.

Yes, absolutely, I agree with this.  I think Ennis is weighing heavily on Jack's reaction to this rather-fast proposition from Randall. 

I'm using the word "stunned" here... in that I think he's trying to quickly process all of these fast moving things happening somewhat unexpectedly at this social event.  The fact that he sits silently and doesn't respond verbally to Randall on the bench before the women come out seems to indicate that he's really pondering all of this.

Although, I don't know that Jack was thinking of leaving Ennis here... I think he was weighing the impact of having an affair with another man on his ongoing relationship with Ennis.  I don't think Jack was at the point of maybe-quitting Ennis until that last lakeside fight.

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Offline belbbmfan

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Re: TOTW 05/08: What do you make of the "Maybe Texas?" scene?
« Reply #66 on: February 20, 2008, 02:10:45 pm »
This is an excellent thread!

Thanks LauraGigs - you hit the nail on the head, empathy was certainly lacking. I always kind of cringe when I watch the 'Maybe Texas' scene, thinking Jack missed a big opportunity there. I don't think Jack displaying empathy and reassuring Ennis' fears would have ultimately changed anything as far as outcomes, but at least Ennis might not have felt so alone in his experience (rational or irrational). How I wish Jack had given just a tiny nod of acknowledgement or a soft 'yeah' to Ennis' questions about people 'knowing' or 'suspecting'. But as others have alluded that would have meant admitting to being queer.

And you're right, the perfect setup for Ennis to get together with Cassie.

Jack's lack of empathy or understanding wasn't new. I never quite understood why Jack responded so 'detached' to Aguirre's message to bring the sheep down. He didn't seem all that bothered. Ennis was clearly upset at this. And used money as an excuse. I always wondered if Jack understood what Ennis was saying or better, not saying at that point. He responded by offering Ennis a loan, which was not the answer Ennis wanted or needed.

And speaking of money, is just struck me that Jack was talking money in this scene, about making a profit and the inflation eating it all up, maybe not a very considerate thing to do seeing as Ennis was always 'in the poorhouse'.

And I was thinking about the fact that in this scene they are talking to each other without really hearing what the other was saying. It really reminded me of one of the first camp scenes together, Ennis cooking, Jack bitching about 'the no fire bullshit' from Aguirre. They were talking but not having a proper conversation where they actually listen to what the other is saying. Much like in the maybe Texas scene. Another bookend?
'We're supposed to guard the sheep, not eat 'em'

Offline LauraGigs

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Re: TOTW 05/08: What do you make of the "Maybe Texas?" scene?
« Reply #67 on: February 20, 2008, 07:51:51 pm »
Jack's lack of empathy or understanding wasn't new. I never quite understood why Jack responded so 'detached' to Aguirre's message to bring the sheep down. He didn't seem all that bothered. Ennis was clearly upset at this. And used money as an excuse. I always wondered if Jack understood what Ennis was saying or better, not saying at that point. He responded by offering Ennis a loan, which was not the answer Ennis wanted or needed.

I don't think Jack understood what Ennis was saying/not saying in that earlier conversation.

In Ennis' mind, the summer (and their idyllic relationship) is OVER, and he must immediately make the emotional transition back to straight, engaged, acceptable-to-society, etc.  So he is thrown for a huge loop and is processing it all at once, when he thought he'd have the rest of summer to make that transition.
I think Jack, optimist that he was, didn't know that the end of the Brokeback job meant the end of their relationship.  He is certain they'll make some kind of plan when they get down from the mountain (or assuming, as in his loan offer, that they'll still be in contact somehow).

But anyway, that's an awesome point – that the "Bring em down" conversation is so similar to the "Texas" one.  Ennis is deeply troubled, and Jack is offering a solution to the immediate, superficial problem and not the more crucial, underlying problem.  A total parallel (maybe not in the palindrome/bookend sense, but definitely a consistency in their relationship).

Offline Artiste

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Re: TOTW 05/08: What do you make of the "Maybe Texas?" scene?
« Reply #68 on: February 20, 2008, 11:15:58 pm »
Wondering too:

Quote
I always wondered if Jack understood what Ennis was saying or better, not saying at that point. He responded by offering Ennis a loan, which was not the answer Ennis wanted or needed.

 

...

May I say that I think that Jack had some spare money since he had worked there the year before?? !! Right??

So, he offerred some $ to Ennis?? As one way to keep on to befriend Ennis, as well as to show him his affection and love.

But Jack did that being puzzled too, since he was sad that both were leaving!! Jack had time to think since the news, but Ennis had not and so acted and re-acted impressively, and became sad since he was to leave Jack!!

What do you think you and all too??

Hugs!!

Offline THE WINGS

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Re: TOTW 05/08: What do you make of the "Maybe Texas?" scene?
« Reply #69 on: February 21, 2008, 10:24:55 pm »
Excellent thread!  I'll attempt to add my two cents worth.

I think this is one of the defining moments of the whole film.  Here we have Ennis finally verbalizing his own fears in more than a few words.  You can tell he has been thinking about their relatioinship, and wants to know how Jack feels. Then we have Jack, again trying to "circle" ever closer to Ennis, in an attempt to realize that "sweet life" that he so desperately wants.  In my humble opinion, I think that by now, Ennis wants this too, but his fear is still holding him back, as is obvious by his response to Jack's suggestion of 'getting  out of there' to "Maybe Texas".  Probably, by this time Jack is beginning to see that it is very unlikely things will progress much from here on. 

He seems slightly interested, when he meets Randall, but in their bench conversation, I get the sense that he is still thinking of Ennis, and hasn't given up on their relationship, at least not at this point.

Just my thoughts on this important scene.

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