TOTW 08/08: What if they had lived together? Would Ennis's fears have allowed a

[elomelo]

I agree that living with someone is definitely very different from simply loving someone but with time, learning and possibly a bit more understanding between each other, Ennis and Jack could make it work. Not to say there wouldn't be any rough patches because there would be plenty, if not more than usual; the homophobic fears instilled in Ennis' mind as a child wouldn't help as wouldn't Twist Sr.'s treatment of his son.

Maybe it's just me and the countless sweet-life fanfics I've read - hey, I know I'm not alone in that  - Ennis and Jack would face several obstacles, and each other could be the biggest one. Ennis is quieter and more cautious with his words and actions, and has grown up knowing that hopes and dreams don't do much. Jack is a bit more trusting towards others - too trusting at times - and despite his abusive childhood, clings to the very hopes and dreams Ennis avoids like the plague. Yeah, opposites might attract but clashing personalities might just do exactly that - clash. Violently, even, seeing as Ennis and Jack are both manly men in their own eyes, anyway, with pride they defend. Not that I see Ennis hurting Jack unless things got out of hand or certain lines were overpushed.

And society happens to be a huge obstacle! If they could find a 'safe' place to live, they might not be welcomed with open arms but at least that safety was there. Then again that safety might not be permanent.

(Okay, I've started ranting again - apologies! I tend to do that, alot xD)

One thing - I'm not sure if it's appropriate for this topic/thread - I find that a lot of people dump the 'blame' of the not-living-together situation on Ennis. Not that it isn't because it is, in many parts, but Jack has his own fears too. If he didn't, he would've tried to stop Ennis from leaving that parking lot after they came off that mountain.

Ah, I have to get going. Snap, I was getting into the 'vibe' too. xD Well I might be back tomorrow to rant, again..so please share your insights (: Which are all VERY well thoughout by the way. 

[Brown Eyes]

One thing - I'm not sure if it's appropriate for this topic/thread - I find that a lot of people dump the 'blame' of the not-living-together situation on Ennis. Not that it isn't because it is, in many parts, but Jack has his own fears too. If he didn't, he would've tried to stop Ennis from leaving that parking lot after they came off that mountain.

Heya elomelo!

Great post.  And, I agree that lots of folks tend to blame Ennis more about the not-living-together situation than Jack.  Both of them certainly have their flaws within the relationship and, from my perspective, seem to have quite different fears and issues where it comes to the progress of the relationship.  I think for Ennis's part, his fears about homophobia/society/violence are a huge factor and probably one of the primary factors playing into them not giving the "cow and calf operation" at least a try.  I think Jack would spring at the opportunity to try living with Ennis.  At the reunion he's already decided that he'd be willing to leave Lureen and Bobby to try living with Ennis.  And, when Ennis divorces he drops everything and rushes to Wyoming.  So, from his side, he doesn't seem to have the same ingrained fears about homophobia and violence (that he's very aware of and sees in Ennis... but doesn't seem to have the same, personal visceral rection to).  I think Jack's main fears are all about pushing Ennis away or pushing Ennis too far.  I think the fear of losing Ennis is Jack's main fear (by the end, with the lake side argument, I think it could be said that we realize Ennis has a similar fear about losing Jack).  One of the ways that I think we see this manifest in Jack... is how carefully he chooses his words around Ennis (what he tells him and what he doesn't... I think mostly motivated by not wanting to scare Ennis off).

The subject of why Jack let Ennis walk away at the end of the '63 summer is such a great old question and debate.  It's been argued (passionately by some) that Jack's behavior beginning with the moment when we see him dismantling the tent to the moment he drives away and leaves Ennis to walk down the road alone is a huge segment of errors on Jack's part.  I, however, see this section of decisions motivated on Jack's part - first of all by an assumption that coming down from the mountain wouldn't at all constitute an end to the relationship (so he doesn't respond as lovingly to Ennis's angst and state of sadness as he could have... simply because I don't think he looks at the situation in as dire a way as Ennis) - and second of all- following the punch, I think Jack is very angry, hurt and confused.  The way Ennis talks to him while they're standing next to Jack's old truck right before they part, I think was also off-putting to Jack.  Essentially, I don't think he's trying as hard as he could normally because he's thrown for such a loop by the drama of the punch and the confusing nature of Ennis's reaction to the whole situation.

Around here, I'm sort of famous, for at least trying to always strike a balance between Jack and Ennis ... and trying not to favor one over the other.  But, in this particular scenario, I tend to see things more from Jack's perspective.  Although, I certainly have sympathy for Ennis in his confusion and in his huge sadness about leaving Jack.  I just don't think he communicates the nature of his angst and sadness to Jack here in a way that Jack can even understand or respond to in an effective way.

[BlissC]

Although, I certainly have sympathy for Ennis in his confusion and in his huge sadness about leaving Jack.  I just don't think he communicates the nature of his angst and sadness to Jack here in a way that Jack can even understand or respond to in an effective way.

I tend to agree, and I agree following the punch Jack's obviously hurt and confused by it. Though he is more confident than Ennis in a lot of respects, I think faced with Ennis's coldness when they come down from the mountain, he doesn't have enough confidence to confront Ennis about their true feelings for each other.

I also think it's sometimes easy to forget that at that point in the story they were still both only nineteen, and from what I remember of being a teenager (a fair while ago now - lol!), at that age I didn't always have the confidence to stand up and say what I wanted, even though I knew myself. Maybe there's a bit of that in it. It also think that maybe at that stage they were possibly both trying to deny what was happening. Falling in love for the first time at nineteen can be a damned scary experience at the best of times, without all the baggage they both had and the expectations of them.

[winterhug]

I don’t think it would be Ennis' fears getting in the way of a sweet life, because I don’t see him as admitting or giving in to fears. He loved his darlin’ daughters and would not want to jeopardize his relationship with them, so I don’t see Ennis ever consenting to living with Jack or any other man. He just couldn’t reconcile his own desires with the family he created. More than fears I see it as stubborn resistance, sacrificing his happiness and retaining the respect and love of Alma Jr. and Francine the only way he thought possible. Ennis’ lack of imagination at what “could be” was more of a barrier than his fears were.

If by some chance living together with Jack had become a reality, then yes I think he would have thrived at the sweet life. From Jack he “learned” he could love another man,  so Jack also could have coached him and helped him with personal struggles. Coming from the background Ennis did, I think he had very low expectations for life, so anything at all… even Jack just living near by might have been “sweet” to him.

[Marge_Innavera]

I think that the step of deciding to live with Jack would be Ennis' biggest hurdle and once he got over that, they'd have a good chance of having a good life together.  But the internalized lack of comfort level with his sexuality would be something he'd always have to deal with. I don't think he would have ever gotten over that.

There was a question about whether homosexuality was legal in the US in the 1960s. In 1963 and 1967 it was still considered a mental disorder, probably brought on by some kind of malfunction in the family.  It wasn't until 2003 and the Lawrence v. Texas decision that anti-"sodomy" laws were struck down nationwide, although it had been decriminalized in 28 states by 2000.  According to CBC News,  it was decriminalized in Wyoming in the 1970s. ( http://www.cbc.ca/news/background/samesexrights/timeline_world.html )

Of course, that doesn't mean it would have been safe for Ennis and Jack to live together openly. That's one reason I've always thought that the arrangement Jack thought of in Lightning Flat was the most realistic one.  Whatever contact with the outside world the Twists had in Lightning Flat, what outsiders would have perceived was that this was an older couple who were having trouble keeping the ranch together; their only son gets divorced and moves back home to help run the ranch -- it would be his one day, after all -- and they have a hired man (or maybe a "cousin" or "nephew") living on the premises in a cabin. With that whole area being so sparsely populated, it isn't likely that anyone would be aware that Jack was living in the cabin and not in his parents' house.  That setting being so removed from most of the outside world could help with Ennis' anxieties as well. When he refers to Earl and Rich having been "the joke of the town," he's referring not only to people having known about Earl and Rich living together -- with fatal consequences later -- but there's also a suggestion that Ennis' internal fears include a fear of ridicule, of being looked upon as an outsider and a freak. 

Where Ennis and Jack would have had to be careful, in terms of gay-bashing or even just people noticing and Ennis reacting negatively to that, would be on any trips to Gillette for supplies.  Ennis thinking that "this thing" could overwhelm them at a fatal moment if they were living together is naive: what would more likely have made their relationship obvious in public would have been little things -- casual touches, casual references.


And Lightning Flat might have been more realistic financially -- I'm not sure that Jack's father-in-law would really have given him enough of a bribe to buy a ranch, but whatever Jack got could have been put to good use buying materials for the cabin and for the ranch generally.  Jack's father would have been an obstacle.  But in Ennis' visit, he seems more troubled by the fact that the ranch is going downhill than about his son's relationship with the man he keeps talking about, and if Ennis and Jack had their own living quarters and were at the house only occasionally, that might help. And once there were some noticeable improvements at the ranch, it's still unlikely that he'd give them any blessing but IMO he would have been able to live with it. 

[Front-Ranger]

Very interesting, Marcia! This bears out my own personal experiences. On my latest trip to Wyoming, I wore a favourite shirt that said "Brokeback BBQ 2007" on it. One of my travelling companions was nervous when he saw me wearing it, when I finally got the chance to take my coat off at the Crazy Woman Cafe in Ten Sleep. But nobody there paid me any mind.

[elomelo]

And Lightning Flat might have been more realistic financially -- I'm not sure that Jack's father-in-law would really have given him enough of a bribe to buy a ranch, but whatever Jack got could have been put to good use buying materials for the cabin and for the ranch generally.  Jack's father would have been an obstacle.  But in Ennis' visit, he seems more troubled by the fact that the ranch is going downhill than about his son's relationship with the man he keeps talking about, and if Ennis and Jack had their own living quarters and were at the house only occasionally, that might help. And once there were some noticeable improvements at the ranch, it's still unlikely that he'd give them any blessing but IMO he would have been able to live with it. 

Good point!

And the location of Lightning Flat is really out in the middle of nowhere so Ennis would probably feel more comfortable living way out there instead of in the city.

Yeah, OMT does really seem more bothered about his failing ranch and it's quite apparent he knows of Jack's sexuality, so even if he were to be a complete prick, he'd let Ennis live on the ranch as long as he pulled his own weight and helped out. But Ennis's respect for OMT...hmm, though it was never shown in the movie, Jack tells Ennis of the incident where his father humiliates him and pees on him when he was barely four years old would give Ennis to hate the man's guts.

Ma Twist might be more welcoming as she knows what Jack meant to Ennis and seemed happy to have Ennis over, and asks him to visit them often. Though she didn't stop Twist Sr's abuse on her son, she loved him and would have wanted him to be happy, no matter who with.

[Marge_Innavera]

Yeah, OMT does really seem more bothered about his failing ranch and it's quite apparent he knows of Jack's sexuality, so even if he were to be a complete prick, he'd let Ennis live on the ranch as long as he pulled his own weight and helped out. But Ennis's respect for OMT...hmm, though it was never shown in the movie, Jack tells Ennis of the incident where his father humiliates him and pees on him when he was barely four years old would give Ennis to hate the man's guts.

Well, hating an in-law's guts would give Ennis something in common with quite a few married people since the beginning of steaming time.....   

[elomelo]

Well, hating an in-law's guts would give Ennis something in common with quite a few married people since the beginning of steaming time.....   

 

[elomelo]

Doesn't hating the father in-law or not being in good terms with the father in-law usually what men do as fathers are most protective of their daughters? Just a thought and besides, Jack isn't a woman. Then again, this point would be good leverage to get Ennis to ranch up with him.

Now I'm just musing out loud