An Accurate Time Line of BBM - Let's Figure It Out Together!!

[Shakesthecoffecan]

The Thresher sank on 10 April 1963.

[Shakesthecoffecan]

June 5th...gives me goosebumps now.

Me too, and Heath died on the full moon, I remember that moon, looking at it from the interstate in Florida while Eartha Kitt sang "Moon River". 

[mouk]

The Thresher sank on 10 April 1963.

It ties in: 'the Thesher lost two months earlier' - they talked about it in June, early on in their time on the mountain

First night in the tent shows full moon in the movie : 1963 Jul  6  Sat? (well more likely in the early hours of the Sunday : "the moon had notched past 2")

And the moving to higher pastures happened before that, obviously

[Brown Eyes]

It ties in: 'the Thesher lost two months earlier' - they talked about it in June, early on in their time on the mountain

First night in the tent shows full moon in the movie : 1963 Jul  6  Sat? (well more likely in the early hours of the Sunday : "the moon had notched past 2")

And the moving to higher pastures happened before that, obviously

Thanks mouk!  Yep, TS1 is definitely a full moon too (one of the clearest intances I think).  And, doesn't the story mention that it's past 2 am?  I don't have my story here with me at work  so, I can't check.... and maybe I'm imagining that.

Do we believe that TS2 happened the night immediately following TS1?  I think that's what we're meant to believe.

And, do we think the "happy tussle" happened the morning after TS2?  I know there's been some debate about that in the past.

OK!  So, here's the summary time line so far:

June 5, 1963- Jack and Ennis meet at Aguirre's trailer
June 7, 1963- Jack and Ennis's first night on Brokeback
July 6-7, 1963- TS1
July 7-8, 1963- TS2 (do we believe this?)
July 8, 1963- happy tussle (do we believe this?)
August 13, 1963- first snow/ Ennis wakes up in the snow

[Fran]

Re the "happy tussle":

I tend to think this wouldn't immediately follow TS2.  I'm thinking it would take a little time for Ennis to get comfortable with Jack.  I'm thinking along the lines of sex in the tent is one thing and sex out in the open is another.  The story seems to back this up:

"They never talked about the sex, let it happen, at first only in the tent at night, then in the full daylight with the hot sun striking down..."

Of course, it could very well have happened the next day, too.  I'd like to hear people's reasons for thinking along those lines.

[mouk]

Fran - sorry for repeating what you say, I was about to post when you posted But we agree so all is well 

You're not imagining ATZ, the story says '"the moon had notched past 2"

TS2 - my personal feeling is that Ennis needed time to brood over what had happened and that Jack gave him this necessary time even though he had hoped to see him for supper. He probably went up after they spent one night separately (not more than that, likely, as there was no food up there, just a few stone biscuits at the most)

Also, this may or not be relevant, but a previous script put a scene between TS1 and TS2 with Ennis coming down to camp in the evening but brushing Jack off when he tried to help him tend his horse before disappearing again into the night - or something like that. Which would indicate that at some stage at least, the film-makers envisaged a time interval between TS1 and TS2.

Happy tussle - I doubt very much it is straight after TS2. Ennis needed much more time than that to be that relaxed. This, I think, is meant to show how comfortable they became over time. And the story says: 'they never talked abut the sex, let it happen, at first only in the tent at night, the in the full daylight with the hot sun striking down ad at evening in the fire glow'.

Also, the film has to show various stages in the summer, not all scenes can be concentrated over 2 or 3 days.

Aguirre's visit, and therefore happy tussle was most likely before August. Perhaps just before August as the next sentence from the visit talks about the hail storm

then 5 miserable days untangling them sheep

then 13 August with the first snow (you have already found the movie scene for this)

then  the next week Aguirre sends word to bring them down  (around the 20th? there is leeway, depending on if 13th August 1963 was early or late in the week)

[Brown Eyes]

Re the "happy tussle":

I tend to think this wouldn't immediately follow TS2.  I'm thinking it would take a little time for Ennis to get comfortable with Jack.  I'm thinking along the lines of sex in the tent is one thing and sex out in the open is another.  The story seems to back this up:

"They never talked about the sex, let it happen, at first only in the tent at night, then in the full daylight with the hot sun striking down..."

Of course, it could very well have happened the next day, too.  I'd like to hear people's reasons for thinking along those lines.

I tend to agree with this.  I think Ennis's playfulness and comfort at touching Jack in the happy tussle are so different from his shyness in TS2 that it's very possible to think the filmmakers want us to believe time has passed between TS2 and the happy tussle.

The editing cut between TS2 and the happy tussle is so abrupt that it is a tad confusing.  Maybe it really is meant to be a temporal transition... much like the abrupt jump from Ennis havind dry heaves in the ailley to the "jolly preacher" scene.

[Front-Ranger]

I also think TS2 happened a few days after TS1. There was too much going on for it to have happened immediately...the washing of the shirts in the stream, the killing of the coyote, the "I ain't queer" scene (which required "commuting"). And the weather was totally different.

[Brown Eyes]

That was a very interesting post JudgeHolden.  And, I think the whole point about the dates of the 4th (July 4th) and the 5th (June 5th) being significant are well-taken.  But, I don't know why that means that either of those dates needs to be imposed on TS1.  In a way I think that July 6-7 (the dates of the full moon) are close enough dates to continue to highlight this range of dates (4,5,6,7) as significant.

I feel pretty confident that the moon for TS1 is one of the strongest representations of the full moon that we see in the film (TS1 and the "prayer of thanks" camping trip seem to include the most direct views of the moon).  Cloud cover (or the movement of clouds across the moon as is seen in the TS1 sequence) doesn't really obscure the viewer's ability to see that it's a full circle/ full moon.

[brokeplex]

Here is something I found posted by Meryl, earlier on another thread.   http://bettermost.net/forum/index.php/topic,3653.0/topicseen.html


THE HOLY DAYS

Originally posted by - jscheib (JeffWrangler) on Thursday, March 2, 2006:

I'm sure we can come up with several holidays, but THE high holy day has to be October 13--cover date of The New Yorker issue where the story was first published. There might be danger of schism over the date of Ennis and Jack's reunion: June (story) or September (movie).

Should April 4 and December 19 be Lesser Feast Days? (Birthdays of Heath and Jake)


Posted by sunmoonstars-1 (Daniel):

Hmm, definitely St's days. Saint Heath's Day, Saint Jake's Day. "Did you get the Saint Heath's Day card I sent you?" "Hunnnh?" "I see you did."


Posted by Ellemeno:


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Should April 4 and December 19 be Lesser Feast Days?

Yes! And I'm for June 24th to be one of the highest holy days - date that Ennis runs down the stairs yelling, "Jack Fuckin Twist!" and they kiss.  Every time I see that scene, and they are at the part where they start to pull apart, and Ennis is breathing heavily, I always remember henrypie writing about something like she always expects his shirt to have gone insideout from the sheer force of their kiss.


Posted by jscheib (JeffWrangler):

I'm all in favor of June 24, but as I noted above, we'll have to guard very carefully against schism between the June-ites and the Septembrists (reunion in the movie). Also between the Tire-Ironites and Accidentalists (cause of Jack's death).


Originally posted by Yaadpyar on Friday, March 3, 2006


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By jscheib
I'm all in favor of June 24, but as I noted above, we'll have to guard very carefully against schism between the June-ites and the Septembrists (reunion in the movie).

Why choose? Why don't we celebrate both dates? The movie needs the story and the story needs the book, and we need both, so why do we have to choose? No one chooses between Easter and Christmas, or Passover and Yom Kippur...

The sacred text (script vs. story) is slightly different also, so the observance of June and September would be also different. The more holidays the better, I say. But this is going to be hard to explain to my boss (why I get extra religious holidays).


Posted by starboardlight Saturday, March 4, 2006:

So far we have Oct 13 as the birth of our faith.
June 24/September to celebrate the reunion of our Gods.
I offer up the Full Moon of July which illuminates their love.
I also think the Entire month of August will also be significant.


Posted by newyearsday:

Now as for another date, I will personally always celebrate December 9th, as it was the first day this movie was officially released to the world, to the masses (albeit only in LA, NY, and San Francisco, but you've gotta start somewhere). It wasn't just a premiere for the lucky few. It was cosmically released for us all on that day.