The Dark Knight: News, Reviews, your Views. "SPOILERS" welcome!

[ednbarby]

I was very glad I had read the list of violent moments on the kids-in-mind site before going to TDK, because it helped me recognize moments to close my eyes before something gross happened.  Like when The Joker stabs a pencil down into a table top, I closed my eyes right away, because I had read about the moment that was coming after that, and knew I didn't want that image in my memory.

You really didn't have to close your eyes, Elle, because that whole thing was implied but not shown.  As was all the rest of the violence in the movie.  The most gory scene, by far, was Bruce sewing up his own gashed arm.  And even that was shown just for an instant.

I love that about it - that it only implied it all and never showed it.  I understand the instinct to cover one's eyes - all the desensitizing, numbing violence and gore of so many other movies has caused us to do that.  And I'm totally with you in that that kind of stuff turns me stone cold off.

I wouldn't take my son to this movie, now having seen it, because it's thematically so disturbing.  (It's a shame, really, that blood and guts don't bother the Grand Theft Auto Generation much anymore.  It should.)  And because, let's face it, clowns are fucking creepy.  Especially when they're truly fucked up, in the John Wayne Gacy sense of it all.

[Ellemeno]

Things keep coming to me to add.

This movie had some really good actors in it, all of whom, except for Heath, were underused, because what was required from them was so superficial.  It's like Michael Caine used about 3% of his range, to just find the Alfred beam and stay right on it, Morgan Freeman even less than that.  Not because they weren't doing their work, they were, they were doing just what was required of them.  Gary Oldman got more to do, but even then, we didn't get a chance to settle on him, it was more like we just skimmed by on the way to our next rendezvous with a big explosion.

And Maggie - mm, I never bought her in the role.  What role?  She had no role.  She just reacted to this or that.

I actually liked Aaron Eckhart, and he got some opportunity to live and express.

Put it this way - The Joker actually grabbed a little kid and threatened to shoot him in front of his parents, and I was like, ho hum.  And just a couple of weeks ago, I walked out of Roman de Gare at the very mention of child violence, because that movie was realistic, and the very thought terrorized me.  

Also like Leslie said, there was an unending stream of previews for comic book movies before the film started.  One movie looked appealing to me, with Ben Stiller, Jack Black, and Robert Downey Jr.  The rest I'll leave to those who know how to appreciate them.

[ednbarby]

Is this thing on?

[BelAir]

Saw it.

And what Leslie said applied, that the violence was so comic-booky, that it mostly didn't get to me.  That was a huge relief.  If Heath wasn't on the screen, I simply closed my eyes during rough scenes.  If Heath was on the screen, I made a little viewing hole with my hands, and just watched his face, and avoided the rest of the screen.  But mostly, it wasn't what I had dreaded, not by a long shot, because it was clearly fake.

I felt pretty detached from the story much of the time, as I often do when I somehow wind up watching action films.  Like it's just so over the top that I can't suspend disbelief, so my emotional engagement with the story and characters doesn't kick in.  I don't think I ever really forgot I was watching a movie.  I'm definitely not its intended demographic.  EXCEPT that I'm a Heathen.  And there they got me good.

It was a joy to see Heath, and to just watch him, and watch for him in his movements, sounds, mannerisms, etc.  He had a surprising number of monologues, where it's just him and maybe one other character, and we get to listen to and look at him for a while.  It must have been a blast to go full throttle like that.

I don't know if it was an Oscar-worthy performance.  Or rather, I don't know if it was an Oscar-worthy role.  He did great, he stole the show, but it sure wasn't Ennis, or even, no offense, Capote.  I didn't think he was scary, but maybe that's because I was sitting there loving him, I went there to sit and love him.

I'm glad he was happy making it.

Hugs, Elle. 

I agree Heath wasn't scary at all...  I thought Two face was the scariest and the most disturbing scene of the whole movie for me was at the end, when he (Two face) had the gun pointed at the boy's head.

I also agree with you about the Oscar - just hadn't been able to find the right words on my own to describe it.  It's not that Heath wasn't great - he was fantastic... but the movie just doesn't seem like a movie that should get nominated for the Oscar.  I sort of feel like somehow an Oscar for the Joker is somehow a slap in the face for Ennis.  (which in reality, Oscar may very well do.)

[MaineWriter]

Okay, so here's a question for all of you.

One of the many reviews I read said that the movie had "lots of loose ends" and that literally "one character was left hanging." That was the Joker, hanging on the batwire, and Batman's foot was the only thing keeping the Joker from falling many stories to his death. Apparently, it is part of Batman's code that he never intentionally kills a person--this is what my daughter tells me. I am not a bat-expert on the finer points of bat-lore.

So, my question:

1. Does Batman take his foot off the wire so that the Joker falls and dies? (If this happens, Batman has broken his code.) But they don't show it so we don't know whether Batman did or not?
2. Was it left hanging (literally) so that in the event of a sequel, the Joker could come back? I am wondering if that was the original plan but now, obviously, everything has changed?
3. Do you think, originally, more was supposed to be shown but because of Heath's death, they didn't actually want to show the Joker's death?

Thoughts?

L

[ednbarby]

Batman will not break his code.  Ever.

The Joker is alive.  Don't know now if they'll include him in a sequel or not.  Kinda hope not.  Kinda hope they allude to him but have Batman take on someone else next time around.

I also think Two Face is still alive.  We don't know for sure that he has died - it could all be a hoax, purposely making him a martyr and Batman the villain.  In "later" Batmans (if you consider these the prequels to the shitty ones of the 80s and 90s), both The Joker and Two Face are very much alive and a part of things.

If you know the Batman mythology, really, if the Joker dies, Batman dies, because they are (and I'm not being facetious, here) two halves of the same whole.  They represent the Duality of Man - how good and evil exist in all of us and battle each other continually in most of us.  Remember, in the movie, The Joker says something like "I'm not gonna kill you.  I NEED you."

I know many here think this movie was just fluff, but I seriously found it quite deep.

 

[tamarack]

Are you sure he was just holding the Joker up there by standing on the wire?

[MaineWriter]

Are you sure he was just holding the Joker up there by standing on the wire?

Well, I can't say with 100% certainty, but that's the way it looked to me.

[southendmd]

"You complete me", while very funny, sums up their relationship.

I found the Joker's line "Hit me" to be very chilling.  Batman had a few opportunities to off the Joker, but didn't.  They do need each other. 

I like the Joker's line when he's hanging off the building, something like, "I have a feeling we'll be doing this forever."

Faked deaths are par for the course in these films.  Never kill off a character, as you may want them in another film.

[optom3]

Okay, so here's a question for all of you.

One of the many reviews I read said that the movie had "lots of loose ends" and that literally "one character was left hanging." That was the Joker, hanging on the batwire, and Batman's foot was the only thing keeping the Joker from falling many stories to his death. Apparently, it is part of Batman's code that he never intentionally kills a person--this is what my daughter tells me. I am not a bat-expert on the finer points of bat-lore.

So, my question:

1. Does Batman take his foot off the wire so that the Joker falls and dies? (If this happens, Batman has broken his code.) But they don't show it so we don't know whether Batman did or not?
2. Was it left hanging (literally) so that in the event of a sequel, the Joker could come back? I am wondering if that was the original plan but now, obviously, everything has changed?
3. Do you think, originally, more was supposed to be shown but because of Heath's death, they didn't actually want to show the Joker's death?

Thoughts?

L

My husband thinks he was left there deliberately to allow the joker to return. He also (big batman fan in his youth) says that batman has a moral code that he cannot kill.
I hope they do not bring in some one else to play the joker.Maybe aother villain could supplant the joker if they make the 3rd movie.I am sure holywood can come up with some idea of how to circumnavigate the joker.