Kudos to Bravo for doing as they said with rpt. BBM !!!

[CellarDweller]

I didn't watch, I had strong suspicions that it would be hacked up, and while I didn't know of this thread, there was a similar discussion on DCF, and reading there only confirmed my thoughts.

Frederick Bravo.

[ChrisC]

Ah, Brokeback got another one good! Welcome to Bettermost! 

Many thanks, I truely love this place.......true salvation  

[injest]

I didn't watch, I had strong suspicions that it would be hacked up, and while I didn't know of this thread, there was a similar discussion on DCF, and reading there only confirmed my thoughts.

Frederick Bravo.

and Fredrick the horse they rode in on...

 

[brokeplex]

Frederick, that is too funny! 

but was the central meaing to the story changed? sure the art form, the structure all that is wonderful technically about the film would be changed with that type of editing. but, I wonder if viewers who have never seen BM before, and watched only the edited version, will be able to see the pathos, the tragedy, and what homophobia did to Jack and Ennis. If they can see and understand that truth then, "let be, let be".

[huntinbuddy]

The overriding question is: Did the edits change the meaning of the story?

Milo

Oh most definitely!  I've seen BBM many times.  I lost count somewhere past 30 viewings.  I know I have each line memorized, and literally every scene burned into my brain.  What offended me the most was not the fact they had removed the f-word from every scene and either deleted it or replaced it with something else; but they removed key scenes which destroyed the entire structure of the film for me.  It was laughable, but yet sad to view.

I had heard Bravo was showing this in conjunction with the GLAAD awards.  By cutting the tent scenes and a few other key scenes they totally missed the boat.  But I think what bothers me the most, is this hacked up version of BBM will undoubtedly be the one that will be shown on the likes of NBC or CBS in the coming months; and any who have not seen the original version are going to say WTF is this!
 
 
 

 

[milomorris]

OK...

The problem that I see being discussed here is that audiences in the US are uncomfortable with on-screen depictions of man2man sex. That's a fact that we all knew before BBM was edited for TV. 

The version of BBM shown on Bravo removed the visual moments of Jack & Ennis having sex, and the profanity. Does the removal of the sex scenes mean that a first-time viewer does not understand that these two men were in love with each other?? There are other moments in the film that show the love between these two men. Does the lack of profanity change anything fundamental about who these men were? I would have to say "no" in both cases. Yes, the TV version might be missing some original details, but the story and the lessons it has to teach are still firmly intact.

Milo

[mvansand76]

BRAVO censored it. Fiona is quite accurate in what she just said. The tent scene was all hacked to hell, and yet the scene with Jack and Lureen in the backseat of the car was nearly fully intact. They all but cut out the tent scene (one of the most important scenes in the entire movie IMO). Once Ennis said to Jack "What are you doing" they cut to the OUTSIDE of the tent.

We stilll have a LONG WAY to go here in the good ole' USA. And BRAVO (a very pro gay channel) just once again proves this fact.

 

Fucking assholes. There. I said it. 

[optom3]

I didn't watch, I had strong suspicions that it would be hacked up, and while I didn't know of this thread, there was a similar discussion on DCF, and reading there only confirmed my thoughts.

Frederick Bravo.

What I do not get, is why cut out the major part of TS2. I simply cannot see the reasoning.Cut that out but leave in the reunion scene ?!!!!! Actually I think it was quite deliberate and just low down.By cutting so much of TS2 it really becomes far less of a truly tragic love story.Jack and Ennis just look more lust craved than in love, so for the new viewer the sympathies are very much pushed towards the women.
TS2 was treated in much the same way  as TS1,ie pan to an outside view, so the viewer is left with the assumption that it is all about sex again.No growing love and tenderness,
That of course just alters pretty well everything, the reunion kiss becomes more lust as does the motel scene.
I abhor them for doing that.It was a disgusting travesty,done im my opinion to manipulate public conception of gays.What's more they took a cinematic masterpiece and trashed it ,for what I can only think was their own agenda.
I am glad I saw it as it shows the true colours of some very influential people in this country.I also hate that I saw it, because it has made me boiling mad.
I have to stop now it is not good for my blood pressure.

[optom3]

OK...

The problem that I see being discussed here is that audiences in the US are uncomfortable with on-screen depictions of man2man sex. That's a fact that we all knew before BBM was edited for TV. 

The version of BBM shown on Bravo removed the visual moments of Jack & Ennis having sex, and the profanity. Does the removal of the sex scenes mean that a first-time viewer does not understand that these two men were in love with each other?? There are other moments in the film that show the love between these two men. Does the lack of profanity change anything fundamental about who these men were? I would have to say "no" in both cases. Yes, the TV version might be missing some original details, but the story and the lessons it has to teach are still firmly intact.

Milo

I am sorry, and I am not being delberately argumentative, but if they had just removed the sexand profanity,I would have had far less of a problem.It is the fact that they removed the affection and love that was developing.That completely IMO alters the whole perspective.I love TS2 Ennis so shy, fighting and losing with a feeling he is powerless to ignore.Jack so tender and caring of him, quietly reassuring him.
Instead we get a quick glimpse and then cut to outside.The very clear, again IMO, reasoning behind this is to persuade us the viewer that TS2 is just a repeat of TS1. NO it isn't.
Also the manipulation has to be deliberate.They show the whole reunion kiss, so obviously dont have a problem,with 2 men kissing, also they show the two in the motel, so no problem with men in each others arms.Their problem is, if they were to show TS2 in its full state, they would have to show the viewer that 2 men can have a tender love for each other not just sex.That I think was a deliberate move.They would in effect  just be combining the reunion kiss and motel scene.So leaving it out makes no sense, other than blatant  manipualtion.Or can middle America only cope with the 2 things separately, ie in each others arms and kissing.I find that just as offensive and also deeply patronising.If it is true, then it is just plain worrying.
So many people who disparage gays, use that sort of argument, oh it's all just sex.No it isn't and neither was BBM. Here was an opportunity to show a love that spanned 20 years, that was deeply felt by both men and yet given no chance because of societies prejudices.They could still have cutTS1 if they were worried, but left the rest and so maybe tried to educate a blinkered homophobic sector of America.
I cannot and will not condone what they did to BBM.They altered the whole slant of the film, not by removing the sex, but by removing the affecton and love.
Better not to have shown it all, than to feed the already deeply entrenched views held by some.
I am a .married woman watching this, so I cannot imagine how offensive it would have been to gay men

[milomorris]

It is the fact tat they remoed the affection and love that was developing.T

And my point is that there are plenty of other places in the film that depict friendship, love, and affection between J&E beyond SNIT. Yes, it was a moment of tenderness between them, but it is not the only one, nor does it necessarily define their bond before leaving the mountain.

Milo