Author Topic: Role of Observers, Viewers, the long-shot, Aguirre, and Us (!!!) in BBM?  (Read 6800 times)

Offline chowhound

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Re: Role of Observers, Viewers, the long-shot, Aguirre, and Us (!!!) in BBM?
« Reply #10 on: September 09, 2008, 02:43:02 pm »
Personally, I'd be surprised if Aguirre had spied upon Jack and Ennis before this incident. It looks as though it well might take him 3-4 hours to get up there and 3-4 hours to get back. Surely he has a better way of employing his time.

What does Aguirre see through his binoculars, I wonder?  I doubt if he sees what I see. I see a delightful new stage in Jack and Ennis's relationship. Night has been replaced by day and the closed privacy of the tent by the sunny outdoors. What was once tentative has now become playful as they chase each other around, the tussle ending not in Jack kissing Ennis but, significantly, in Ennis kissing Jack.

Does Aguirre see anything of this joyfulness, this fun? Maybe he glimpses it briefly but I think that would be all. Certainly his later summary - "stemming the rose" - suggests that sex is about all he is capable of seeing.

The counterpart to this scene is, of course, when Alma sees the passionate reunion kiss of jack and Ennis, though, once more, they are unaware that they are being watched. (Is it just a coincidence that in both scenes the viewers don't see things directly but through something else - Aguirre through the lens of his binoculars, Alma through the glass of the screen door?). The difference between the two scenes is that Alma has no way of "reading" the situation though she may be aware of a passion in Ennis that she herself has never experienced. (For the viewer, like me, "reading" the situation poses no problems). The memory of this scene is clearly something which gnaws away at Alma though when she finally decides that she does know how to "read" the situation is unclear. Obviously, by the Thanksgiving dinner, she has, though presumably this is a "reading" she has reached earlier.


Offline Artiste

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Re: Role of Observers, Viewers, the long-shot, Aguirre, and Us (!!!) in BBM?
« Reply #11 on: September 09, 2008, 02:54:51 pm »
Merci chowhound !

How delightful is your post!

You sure bring good news !


You say:
        Surely he (Aquirre) has a better way of employing his time.

                 

.....

Chowhound, Aquirre's job isn't it  his investment, his sheep, and therefore, he must know if his workers (Ennis and Jack) are doing their jobs; so spying is Aguirre's way to find out secretly !

And I love it that you connect Alma's viewing of Ennis and Jack kissings and hugs are watched by her too secretly !!

More please... more secrets by observers ??

au revoir,
hugs!

Offline chowhound

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Re: Role of Observers, Viewers, the long-shot, Aguirre, and Us (!!!) in BBM?
« Reply #12 on: September 10, 2008, 04:40:37 pm »
Hi Artiste
   I understand Aguirre's financial connection to the sheep but I still feel it would be a big task to make his way up Brokeback to see if Jack and Ennis were doing their jobs. And, if he found out they weren't, what could he do then? He could scarcely fire them as who then would look after the sheep?
 I find it interesting, that, although he's seen Jack and Ennis fooling around, he says nothing when he gets to Jack's camp. Maybe he's partially mollified as, when he uses his binoculars for the second time, he sees Ennis doing his job and tending the sheep. (Interestingly, what he sees is a mirror image of what we have seen earlier when Jack and Ennis are first making their way up Brokeback. In both cases, Ennis is carrying a baby lamb in a sling at the side of his horse. Ennis, the good shepherd, I imagine).
  A possible counterpoint to the two scenes where Jack and Ennis are seen by others, though they are unaware they are being watched, are two scenes where one of them is looking for the other from far away but can't find what they are looking for. The first of these scenes is when Jack has gone up to be with the sheep on the first night. After setting up his tent, he sits outside and looks down the mountain, hoping, I think, to catch a glimpse of Ennis but all he can make out is the smoke rising from the campfire below. The second scene is when Ennis looks up the mountain, hoping to find Jack, but can't make him out. This occurs when he is washing the blue coffee pot in the stream. (If you have StripedWall, it's images 291-95). Fortunately, as the movie progresses, they do manage to see each other much more clearly, closely and directly.

Offline Artiste

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Re: Role of Observers, Viewers, the long-shot, Aguirre, and Us (!!!) in BBM?
« Reply #13 on: September 10, 2008, 09:38:47 pm »
Merci chowhound !

You post is again very interesting !

You say about Aguirre:
        He could scarcely fire them as who then would look after the sheep?
               

......

Chowhound, I think that he could easily get rid of Ennis and Jack, if not right there and then, at least in a few days after getting replacements ! But, Aguirre keeps both Ennis and Jack and, that is what is puzzling ? To me, it is a puzzle: (A) Is Aguirre a [bcongenial[/b] person/boss? What is his motivation, if he (Aguirre) is not gay himself ?

Au revoir,
hugs!

Offline Artiste

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Re: Role of Observers, Viewers, the long-shot, Aguirre, and Us (!!!) in BBM?
« Reply #14 on: October 10, 2008, 11:41:39 pm »
I still think that one as a viewer can see Aguirre as a gay person, and/or at least as a voyeur because those long shots show us that!

Anyone agree??

Offline Katie77

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Re: Role of Observers, Viewers, the long-shot, Aguirre, and Us (!!!) in BBM?
« Reply #15 on: October 11, 2008, 03:22:09 am »
I have just read thru the posts here, and Amanda, your observations are really brilliant, and reading how you explain it, makes it seem a very feasible possibility that the boys were being watched at other times than the scene we see Aguire with the binoculars. Next time I watch the film, I will look at it from that perspective, just to see if my opinion changes.

I agree with Chowhound that the distance the boys were from Aguire's trailer was probably too far for him to travel to make regular inspections. Considering that it seemed like a long enough trip for Ennis to go back to the bridge to get the food supplies.

I have always wondered why Aguire even went up to the camp to tell Jack about his uncle. In some ways, it seems very much out of character for someone like Aguire to take on such a trip for a compassionate reason. If it was Jack's father or mother maybe, but not just for his uncle. Even the fact that Jack's mother knew who to ring, with the news of the uncle in the first place is a bit of a mystery. My thought on Aguire, getting a phone call like that, would have him saying...."Well WTF do you want me to do, he could be anywhere up in those mountains, and Im not goin to find him".....

And what was the purpose anyway, did he think Jack would roll up his tent and say "I must go and sit with my sick uncle"....what would have happened to the sheep then?

The only reason I can see why AGuire did the trip up the mountain, was to maybe check on the boys, but I do think it was the first time that he did. I think the second time he went up, just to tell Jack his uncle was OK, definately was for the reason of checking out the boys, not for a sexual thrill,  but just to see if they were watching the sheep properly. Maybe even with the intention, that if he saw them rolling around on the ground again, he might have fired them, or told them to bring the sheep down.

I think we as the viewer were meant to feel anxiety that someone like Aguire had spotted them, and then we would worry about the consequences.

Just the same as when Alma opened the door, the same shock and anxiety and fear of their secret getting out.

It also showed us, that as much as they tried to do everything privately, and thought that they had never been caught, they had been, and Ennis in particular would have been mortified if he had known he had been seen. Jack, on the other hand, after the "stemming the rose" conversation with Aguire did know they had been spotted, but knew not to tell Ennis about it.

I think all of these scenes were to cause the viewer the same anxieties that Ennis was feeling. How many of us thought, "OMG Ennis would have a seizure if he knew Aguire saw them, or if he knew Alma saw them"......we were shocked when it happend, but then had to hope that Ennis would not find out, or he might then have finished the relationship with Jack once and for all.

I dont think Aguire was gay, or even a voyeur. I got the feeling that he was disgusted with what he saw, and tried to make Jack feel that way when he confronted him about it.


Being happy doesn't mean everything is perfect.

It means you've decided to see beyond the imperfection

Offline Artiste

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Re: Role of Observers, Viewers, the long-shot, Aguirre, and Us (!!!) in BBM?
« Reply #16 on: October 11, 2008, 05:29:44 pm »
Katie, your post is delightful !

I would like very much to answer many of your thoughts, and for now, talk about this which you say:
         
I dont think Aguire was gay, or even a voyeur. I got the feeling that he was disgusted with what he saw, and tried to make Jack feel that way when he confronted him about it.


                         

..........

Katie, if you take the view that Aguirre liked Jack or had a crush on him, then maybe that is the reason he went up to see Jack, not only once but twice, and maybe more often ?

May I ask you, (and to all too), why did Aguirre hire Jack a second time ?


Au revoir,
hugs!