Author Topic: BBC World Service Book Club - Annie Proulx's Newest Revelations!  (Read 12129 times)

Offline Phillip Dampier

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BBC World Service Book Club - Annie Proulx's Newest Revelations!
« on: September 30, 2008, 09:11:20 pm »
BBC World Book Club
Annie Proulx Talks About Her Life After The Shipping News,
Brokeback Mountain + Reader Questions


Please enjoy this 30 minute special edition of BBC World Book Club. 
Some stunning revelations from Annie Proulx about her feelings after BBM,
and her disdain for fan fiction reinterpretations of the story....



Keep this window open while listening to the program.  If you leave the page, the program will stop.
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Offline louisev

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Re: BBC World Service Book Club - Annie Proulx's Newest Revelations!
« Reply #1 on: September 30, 2008, 09:47:27 pm »
very revealing, Phillip.  I always was sure that the cease and desist letter I got came direct from Annie Proulx, and she confirmed it in so many words!  'They can't stand to have the ending the way it was so they rewrote it.'
“Mr. Coyote always gets me good, boy,”  Ellery said, winking.  “Almost forgot what life was like before I got me my own personal coyote.”


Offline southendmd

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Re: BBC World Service Book Club - Annie Proulx's Newest Revelations!
« Reply #2 on: September 30, 2008, 09:52:38 pm »
"Enjoy"?  Rather sad to hear, actually.

(Starts with talking about The Shipping News.  BBM discussion comes in around 18:00)

When asked if having written BBM was a blessing or a curse, she replies:  a curse, absolutely a curse.  I wish I'd never written the story...Endless botheration...

Here, she speaks of gay men who rewrite the story with a happy ending, rather than the other WSJ interview where she referred to straight men. 

Offline Phillip Dampier

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Re: BBC World Service Book Club - Annie Proulx's Newest Revelations!
« Reply #3 on: September 30, 2008, 10:21:51 pm »
What are your thoughts about the program?  I noticed the interviewer spent a significant amount of time on The Shipping News and didn't spend as much time on Brokeback Mountain, something I am not sure meant they edited down a longer program to fit within time constraints, or if Proulx purposely didn't want to dwell too much on BBM. 

I came away from the program with mixed feelings and, frankly, a few concerns.

Her reaction to the fan fiction community was openly hostile and she seems offended by "gay men changing the ending" to have Jack and Ennis live happily ever after.  She also seems offended by the pop culture reinterpretation of the story and I was stunned by her declaration she wishes she never wrote the story.

While she seems to want to move on, there are obviously a lot of us still dwelling to one degree or another on the story and its personal impact on each of us.  My personal experience suggests there may actually be more heterosexual female fan fiction writers working with Brokeback Mountain then gay men, and I appreciate she may have concerns about others borrowing 'ownership' of the story concept for their own pieces, but I'm somewhat surprised she doesn't seem to understand what drives some of the fan fiction writers I've come to know.

I have to wonder if some authors don't realize the intent of most fan fiction writers is not to offend the original author but to actually celebrate and honor the original story.  With BBM in particular, the urgent desire to take a story that comes away with a devastating ending and change it or find some way to carry it forward is hardly surprising.  There are a lot of people, gay men in particular, that are already quite familiar with the rocky roads they travel in American society in coping with sexuality and relationships - even more so in the rural Wyoming she writes about.  I submit it's part of the human spirit to try and conquer adversity and find happiness, and while I'd argue that actual positive life change in one's own real life is far more effective than adjusting the lives of fictional characters, why be surprised to find so many writers recreating or extending a story that powerfully touched so many?  I don't personally find a need to do that, which is why I am not involved in fan fiction writing, but I can understand why others are.

Second, I am always surprised by the lack of graciousness some people have in accepting the praise and attention they receive from people whose lives were literally shaken, if not permanently changed, by their work.  Of course, I'm not in a position to really understand and relate to the attention Ms. Proulx has gotten, and maybe it has been far more than I can imagine, but why is she surprised as a published author and willing participant in the adaptation of her stories to the big screen that she has gotten lavish praise and attention for her work?  I can understand her frustration by the use and misuse of her Brokeback Mountain story by various players in the American culture war, where political posturing crashes headfirst into artistic venues, but this should not be a surprise.  Proulx has consistently been offended by the "gay cowboy" pop culture reference to her story, and she has made it a point to correct the record at every opportunity, which is valuable.  But Proulx also will have to understand that pop culture always boils down concepts and trashes nuance.  On some things, you just have to understand the reality and not get too bent out of shape about it.

I was raised to accept praise and good wishes with grace, and I think she'd do better doing the same.  I can also say from the early days of BetterMost, the biggest struggle I faced was just getting people to visit and see what our community was all about.  I've never forgotten just how grateful I am to the people who make this place what it is and who came here and encouraged me to keep going.  I hope Ms. Proulx can remember the universal challenge writers always face - getting noticed and finding enough readers to actually spend time with your work.  I hope every author remembers to cherish their readers.

I remain impressed with Annie Proulx's writing and I respect her choice to want to write the stories she chooses to write without being hassled or bothered.  I just hope she'll always be willing to accept and respect the praise coming from those whose lives have been touched by her hard work.  Attacking your biggest fans risks not getting too many new ones.
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Offline louisev

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Re: BBC World Service Book Club - Annie Proulx's Newest Revelations!
« Reply #4 on: September 30, 2008, 10:57:13 pm »
I have to agree with a lot of what you have said here, Phillip.  It's an unfortunate fact that just because someone is an insightful and even brilliant writer does not necessarily carry over into their being a nice or even a gracious person.  In fact, some writers, historically, have been so downright dysfunctional that they could barely tolerate society.

I studied literature in college and graduate school and there are many examples of this.  Annie Proulx probably falls in the middle of the spectrum.  There are people like Oscar Wilde who were socialites and had a wide circle of friends, entertained constantly and were sought out, and others like Sylvia Plath who was a paranoiac recluse who could barely stand anyone.  Some are overbearing and horribly self-absorbed, and I would have to say that Annie Proulx strikes me as being on the self-absorbed side, who prefers solitude and abhors the trappings and lack of privacy that come with the million seller book that made her a household name.  She was also said to have deeply loathed the film adaptation of 'The Shipping News' and tried to get her name dissociated from the film.  I saw the film, didn't really think it was that great, but to have an author become so vehement about a film adaptation really shows she has little to no respect for the flim genre or its artists, yet expects respect for her own non-derivative 'pure' art.  That is my opinion but that is one thing I gathered from the interview and other sources.

And the fact that she sends her lawyer after people who have written fan fiction is something few authors do.  Anne Rice does it, and I have had a similar impression about Anne Rice: self-absorbed, happy to have the money her fame brings her and yet deeply disdainful of her fans.  I have preferred to think that Proulx does care about how much 'Brokeback Mountain' means to those who were moved by the story and the film to have found their lives enriched and changed by it, in coming out, or in becoming empowered to make changes in their own lives, but I have to admit that I doubt that is so.  I think she cares about herself, her solitude, and her own life, and not really very much about the others she has affected with her art.  But that would be in keeping with the somewhat narcissistic personality type that shows up so often in the literary arts.
“Mr. Coyote always gets me good, boy,”  Ellery said, winking.  “Almost forgot what life was like before I got me my own personal coyote.”


Offline optom3

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Re: BBC World Service Book Club - Annie Proulx's Newest Revelations!
« Reply #5 on: September 30, 2008, 10:58:17 pm »
Oh my!!!
I found myself literally shouting at the computer.If you don't want the attention, do not allow your work to be turned into  a movie. It seems to have escaped her attention that many many more people will have read other of her works as a consequence of BBM the film,
So fan fiction may annoy her, but is she so coldhearted as to be, not even slightly moved by how many people's lives have been touched and in many ways vastly enhanced by BBM. I remember at the time of the press junkets, she was fullsome in her praise of the film, even saying Heath became Ennis.She seemed so genuinley pleased by the film and the reactions to it.
Perhaps if she wants no attention, then  she should just write for her own pleasure and no longer have her work published.After all in her own words she finds writing very easy.

When I think of all the endless interviews the cast had to do and yet I never felt they were anything ,other than moved by the impact of the film.
The radio interview has left a bitter taste in my mouth, probably brought on by the bile professed by Proulx, and the curse of BBM.

I will continue to love the film and probably the s.s. I will however give the rest of her works a very wide berth, heaven forbid that I would like any of them, or be affected or moved by them.

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Re: BBC World Service Book Club - Annie Proulx's Newest Revelations!
« Reply #6 on: September 30, 2008, 11:10:29 pm »
Well, Annie P. is pretty cantankerous, not that that's a bad thing. She admitted long ago that BBM was difficult for her to get out of her system after completing it. Jack and Ennis of all her characters really stuck with her. It may be a hassle now to be continuously reminded of BBM. I'm sure she'd like readers to pay attention to her current writings rather than returning to BBM. She reminds me a little of say, Leonard Nimoy who was frustrated for years about being typecast as his most famous and beloved character; Spock. It took him many many years to accept and come to terms with his "alter ego" Spock. Anne P. might be going through something similar. she may be worried that as an author she'll forever be associated with BBM and her other works will be ignored. But, lets face it, for now at least BBM is her Masterpiece. she'll have to create something to exceed or equal it, and that may not ever happen, and she knows it. I look forward to reading her new stuff soon.

Offline SFEnnisSF

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Re: BBC World Service Book Club - Annie Proulx's Newest Revelations!
« Reply #7 on: October 01, 2008, 02:12:06 am »
I saw this in the local gay rag and came here to post about it, and found this thread and it seems it's already being discussed.  (Why is this thread a sticky.  No one see's the sticky's at the top of the page IMO...) 

http://www.sfbaytimes.com/index.php?sec=article&article_id=9083
Article is at the bottom of the page


Brokeback Fans Torment Author Proulx

Brokeback Mountain author Annie Proulx has told The Wall Street Journal that her short story, which was made into the hit movie of the same name, has become a “source of constant irritation in my private life.””There are countless people out there who think the story is open range to explore their fantasies and to correct what they see as an unbearably disappointing story,” she told the newspaper. “They constantly send ghastly manuscripts and pornish rewrites of the story to me, expecting me to reply with praise and applause for ‘fixing’ the story. They certainly don’t get the message that if you can’t fix it you’ve got to stand it,” she said. “Most of these ‘fix-it’ tales have the character Ennis finding a husky boyfriend and living happily ever after, or discovering the character Jack is not really dead after all, or having the two men’s children meet and marry, etc., etc. ... Beneath every mangled rewrite is the unspoken assumption that because they are men they can write this story better than a woman can.”

Marge_Innavera

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Re: BBC World Service Book Club - Annie Proulx's Newest Revelations!
« Reply #8 on: October 01, 2008, 11:44:09 am »
Well, Annie P. is pretty cantankerous, not that that's a bad thing. She admitted long ago that BBM was difficult for her to get out of her system after completing it. Jack and Ennis of all her characters really stuck with her. It may be a hassle now to be continuously reminded of BBM.  . .  But, lets face it, for now at least BBM is her Masterpiece. she'll have to create something to exceed or equal it, and that may not ever happen, and she knows it.

First, there are a number of discussions on this subject, and predictably, a writer making statements that arguably amount to spitting on one's fans has been referred to as "blunt", "not mincing words", "cantankerous" and "opinionated."  Unfortunately, none of that precludes the objects of the verbal spitting from saying exactly what they think -- hostile 'honesty' tends to produce responses in kind.

Second, some of these statements remind me of popular musicians of many years standing who go on tour and insist on playing only their new stuff.  That almost always ends badly.  The cantakerous, blunt and opinionated truth is that works of art, when they develop a significant following and a lot of fame, might be subject to legal copyright but in a sense the artist loses control of them.  They might not like that, and might react with peevish and spiteful remarks in public but that won't put the toothpaste back in the tube.

I'd be curious to see what stories these purported gay male writers have sent her -- most of the fanfic I read is written by women.

Finally, I think I've posted this elsewhere in the forum, but if I ever get the opportunity to meet Annie Proulx or hear her speak, I'll feel that I have to keep being a Brokeback fan a deep-dark secret.  Ironic considering the subject matter.

Offline optom3

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Re: BBC World Service Book Club - Annie Proulx's Newest Revelations!
« Reply #9 on: October 01, 2008, 01:31:41 pm »
Proulx may well be associated for some considerable time with BBM, maybe even for ever.I cannot see why that is such a problem for her.To have millions of people fall in love with your work, via either the story, the film or both, is a complement surely.She even admits she find writing easy.So not only is she presumably handsomely rewarded for doing something she loves, but also finds it as easy as hopping off a log.
Oh that the rest of us had such problems.
I realise that she would want to get her new work out there, but she is now in a much better position to do that, based on the success of BBM. I had never heard of her, until someone I knew gave me the story to read.
Her reaction is akin to Leonardo Da Vinci, if he were still alive, saying, I wish people would stop going on and on about the Mona Lisa.In fact do you know some charlatan art students, have had the temerity to study and copy it !!!!
Except of course he would not say it exactly that way, as he was Italian. !
I believe the phrase is, imitation is the sincerest form of flattery.I still stick to my original thought though, as in, if you don't want attention, don't put yourself in the spotlight.
I suspect many an aspiring author would make  a pact with Faust to have that sort of notoriety, or even an acceptance letter from a publisher.Talk about biting the hand that feeds you.

Still, it's a free world she is entitled to express her view,I just wish it was not quite so scathing.It almost makes me feel silly for falling in love with the story and film so much.