Author Topic: Nice Girls Don't Get the Corner Office: 101 Unconscious Mistakes Women Make ....  (Read 3223 times)

Offline Kelda

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I met up with my mentor today.

She gave me the loan of a great book which I started reading on the commute back from our meet up. Bet I accidently left it in the office so can't quote from it at the mo, but the initital pages made interesting reading...

Its called

Nice Girls Don't Get the Corner Office: 101 Unconscious Mistakes Women Make That Sabotage Their Careers

by Lois P. Frankel

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Nice-Girls-Dont-Corner-Office/dp/0446695777/ref=wl_itt_dp?ie=UTF8&coliid=I17JFPCY8BQ1CT&colid=25LKN98F8BW8P

More to come later but feel free to post in the meantime!



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Offline BlissC

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The synopsis of the book, on amazon.co.uk:

Quote
For every professional woman who wants to get ahead - but feels she is at an impasse - NICE GIRLS DON'T GET THE CORNER OFFICE comes to the rescue. Although it's less threatening and more politically correct for women to point the finger outwardly when assessing why they are overlooked for promotions and assignments for which they are superbly qualified, the real answers may lie inward. In this book, Dr Lois Frankel, an internationally recognised corporate coach and author, reveals the 101 self-sabotaging behaviours women learn as girls - behaviours and habits that are now holding them back in the workplace, such as couching statements as questions, tilting your head when you speak, waiting to be noticed and pinching company pennies. From executive to entry level, every woman needs to know what she is doing to subconsciously sound, look, act, market herself, and/or be treated like a 'girl'. This book will help women to become aware of when and how they are damaging their careers and it will give them the advice and tips they need to help replace these self-defeating behaviours with more effective ones - and finally claim the corner office they so richly deserve.

Okay, well I guess without actually reading the book, it's difficult to make a comment on the book itself, but Amazon's synopsis seems to suggest that a large part of the problem is that the reason why women aren't found in higher management positions in anything like the proportions they should be based on demographics, is because they act like "girls". Jeez! 20 years back for equal opportunities!

Men and women are different, and do behave differently, but that shouldn't be seen as an excuse for discrimination. Things like waiting to be noticed aren't a matter of gender differences, that's a confidence and self-esteem issue, and white 30 or 40 years ago you could argue that girls/women were conditioned to be deferential to men and play the subservient "good little wife", nowadays, most girls/women don't get that sort of conditioning from their parents at all.

I'm prepared to be convinced otherwise, and it'll be interesting to hear your comments on it Kelda, but based on the description of it given by Amazon, I have to say, IMHO (or is IMHO too girly?  ;)), it sounds like the author's trying to confuse low confidence and self-esteem, and a lack of confidence to take control of a situation (which anyone, male or female can suffer from) with the differences between men and women, without actually tackling the problems of a patriarchal society where men hold all the power, or the very real problem of the men out there who do discriminate against women for no good reason.


"No matter how hard you try, You're still in prison, If ya born with wings and you never fly."

Offline Kelda

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I'll take some parts form it when I have the book, but honest to god I was reading going..... " I actually do that".

And I like to think I'm pretty damn feminist and I'm certainly not girly!
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Marge_Innavera

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Okay, well I guess without actually reading the book, it's difficult to make a comment on the book itself, but Amazon's synopsis seems to suggest that a large part of the problem is that the reason why women aren't found in higher management positions in anything like the proportions they should be based on demographics, is because they act like "girls". Jeez! 20 years back for equal opportunities!

Men and women are different, and do behave differently, but that shouldn't be seen as an excuse for discrimination. Things like waiting to be noticed aren't a matter of gender differences, that's a confidence and self-esteem issue, and white 30 or 40 years ago you could argue that girls/women were conditioned to be deferential to men and play the subservient "good little wife", nowadays, most girls/women don't get that sort of conditioning from their parents at all.

One of the first things that jumped out at me about that excerpt was the sly reference to "political correctness", which should always ring an alarm bell or two. 

However, some of the things the excerpt listed do tend to make people see you as ineffectual -- such as a rising inflection at the end of a sentence or qualifiers like "I might be wrong but....." Not that it's a good idea for either women or men to pretend to be omniscient but habits like that tend to give an impression -- not usually a conscioius one -- that the speaker is unsure of herself. 

Offline serious crayons

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However, some of the things the excerpt listed do tend to make people see you as ineffectual -- such as a rising inflection at the end of a sentence or qualifiers like "I might be wrong but....." Not that it's a good idea for either women or men to pretend to be omniscient but habits like that tend to give an impression -- not usually a conscioius one -- that the speaker is unsure of herself. 

In Susan Estrich's Sex and Power, which I read when it came out in 2001, I recall her making the case that much sex discrimination today is unconsciously perpetrated by educated men who would be horrified to think of themselves as sexist. But they pass over individual women for hiring or promotion based on typically female behavioral traits like this -- the use of rising inflections, qualifying statements, etc.

Marge_Innavera

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In Susan Estrich's Sex and Power, which I read when it came out in 2001, I recall her making the case that much sex discrimination today is unconsciously perpetrated by educated men who would be horrified to think of themselves as sexist. But they pass over individual women for hiring or promotion based on typically female behavioral traits like this -- the use of rising inflections, qualifying statements, etc.

I've no doubt about that.  However, women interested in public speaking should probably pay attention to such habits -- they're a reflection of the generations of training that steers women away from being to assertive.

Offline Kelda

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I've been really busy so not had a chance to read any more - plan to try this week.
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