Author Topic: "Jack, I swear..." What do you think Ennis meant by that?  (Read 210594 times)

Offline Artiste

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Re: "Jack, I swear..." What do you think Ennis meant by that?
« Reply #210 on: April 12, 2007, 11:11:26 pm »
Survivor's Syndrome, I wonder if I have that since I can not stop thinking about my past lover/partner/pal, and about other past pals too!!

You think Ennis has That: Survivor's Syndrome!! ??

By saying Jack, I swear... and by keeping the shirts, plus the postcard of Brokeback Mountain where they did meet and were happy together!! ??

What is: Survivor's Syndrome??

Hugs!!

Offline Front-Ranger

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Re: "Jack, I swear..." What do you think Ennis meant by that?
« Reply #211 on: April 12, 2007, 11:47:59 pm »
Kurt Vonnegut was a soldier during WW2 in the sacking of Dresden...and he wrote about it in his masterpiece Slaughterhouse Five.

The syndrome was tied to the Halocaust but there isn't any reason it can't relate to the loss of any beloved.

Here is more about it.


http://www.leadpencil.net/survivor.html


With hopes for your peace and resolution.
Too much to do. . .I don't have time to get old!

Offline serious crayons

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Re: "Jack, I swear..." What do you think Ennis meant by that?
« Reply #212 on: April 13, 2007, 01:46:05 am »
Yes, I think Survivor's Syndrome applies to war, plane crashes, epidemics and anything else where some people die and others, purely by chance, do not. The people who survive are left wondering  what made them deserving of life, when others they knew who appeared equally deserving (or perhaps seemed MORE so) did not survive. We're taught in our culture and religions that our fates are based on our past good behavior, or by our potential for future good behavior. So if we survive the catastrophe, it's like we were worthy of being spared, but in fact we may not feel particularly worthy. Our survival is largely probably due to chance and luck. The guilt that results is survivor's syndrome.

Religion is, in part, supposed to help us make sense of the cruelties of fate. Here is where it really drops the ball. Because fate is often more chance than anything else. What moment did you cross the street? What seat did you choose? Did you decide to stay home from the party that night?

« Last Edit: April 13, 2007, 10:51:46 am by ineedcrayons »

Offline Artiste

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Re: "Jack, I swear..." What do you think Ennis meant by that?
« Reply #213 on: April 13, 2007, 09:41:09 am »
Thanks Front-Ranger and ineedcrayons!!

I do not know if I have Survivor's Syndrome!!  It could be that, and for many reasons, as in many, many experiences.

I will have to re-read, as I do not understand, since I am nervous about this right now. Later on, mutilple readings and thoughts about it, might help me understand!!

For now, I copied this from that text:
People whose personality and development were not yet fully formed were thrown into a hostile environment. The threat of death was unrelenting, and human rights were nonexistent. Individuals who were not ready to deal with this sort of situation were forced to cope in varying ways.
...

To that, I say that I was in hostile environnment many times, in more that one experiences, considering my own life, as some of you know. Will talk about that on other occasions. When asked.

For now, I am still puzzled as to why my friend life was not spared in the hospital about two years ago, because I figure that doctor(s) killed him.

That is my puzzle: that the doctor(s) and his family did NOT help him, in that hospital!! I consider that like the gays were sent by the SS in those camps to be murdered because they were homosexual men!! That I think is happening now!! It was the case of my friend... my partner/buddy/lover (Wayne)... I consider, even if I tried to save his life!! Hard to understand??

Pray that that will not be the case for me, because I am a gay man!!

Hugs!!

Offline HerrKaiser

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Re: "Jack, I swear..." What do you think Ennis meant by that?
« Reply #214 on: April 13, 2007, 10:56:56 am »
Kurt Vonnegut was a soldier during WW2 in the sacking of Dresden...and he wrote about it in his masterpiece Slaughterhouse Five.

The syndrome was tied to the Halocaust but there isn't any reason it can't relate to the loss of any beloved.

Here is more about it.


http://www.leadpencil.net/survivor.html


With hopes for your peace and resolution.

Agree, Ennis could have at least some symtoms of survivor syndrome, but that would, I think, mean he was 100% sure that jack was murdered, yes? On the other hand, I thnk Ennis' feelings are more in the very deep regretful mode; regretful that he did not muster up the truth in "I swear" and communicate it orally to Jack during Jack's life. (even though I hold onto my strong feeling that Ennis' feelings were always there and true and jack knew it).

hence, Ennis is suffering from the scourge of one of my favorite old sayings, "there is no pain worse than that of regret". To release himself from such pain, Ennis swears (a commitment to God in fact) that his love for Jack endures forever.


moremojo

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Re: "Jack, I swear..." What do you think Ennis meant by that?
« Reply #215 on: April 13, 2007, 11:33:00 am »
To release himself from such pain, Ennis swears (a commitment to God in fact) that his love for Jack endures forever.
One of the very first and most heart-stirring comments I ever read about Brokeback Mountain, months before I actually saw the film myself, was an early usercomment on the IMDb that included (and I paraphrase from memory): "...it is a love story that begins without love and ends with a love that will never die." This beautiful line alone would have piqued my interest, but after my first exposure to the film, it acquired depths of meaning that I could not possibly have foreseen.

Offline Artiste

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Re: "Jack, I swear..." What do you think Ennis meant by that?
« Reply #216 on: April 13, 2007, 11:37:58 am »
Yes, we do not foresee!! Thank goodness, we try to know Annie's story!! More and more!!


Offline Rayn

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Re: "Jack, I swear..." What do you think Ennis meant by that?
« Reply #217 on: April 14, 2007, 03:25:28 am »
One of the very first and most heart-stirring comments I ever read about Brokeback Mountain, months before I actually saw the film myself, was an early usercomment on the IMDb that included (and I paraphrase from memory): "...it is a love story that begins without love and ends with a love that will never die." This beautiful line alone would have piqued my interest, but after my first exposure to the film, it acquired depths of meaning that I could not possibly have foreseen.

Yes, that's a lovely description of the film because it focuses on "love"; however the nearly desperate sadness of their love, in my opinion, is the greater message of the movie.  It is a lesson that tragic love teaches, and which people take to heart and mind many saying, "I must change, so it does not happen to me!   That is how I took it, anyway, because I feel love that lives between two living beings is preferable to the loving memory of someone who has died.   A ghost is a cold thing to kiss goodnight and colder still to sleep with.

Offline Artiste

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Re: "Jack, I swear..." What do you think Ennis meant by that?
« Reply #218 on: April 14, 2007, 10:42:34 am »
Hi Ryan and all!!

Ryan you say this:
That is how I took it, anyway, because I feel love that lives between two living beings is preferable to the loving memory of someone who has died.   A ghost is a cold thing to kiss goodnight and colder still to sleep with.
 ...

Wow, wow, Ryan you are a writer?? You compose poetry???
 
Hugs!!

Offline Rayn

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Re: "Jack, I swear..." What do you think Ennis meant by that?
« Reply #219 on: April 14, 2007, 12:22:21 pm »
Well, thank you, Artiste, but I was just being myself:   ;) 

Rayn