Author Topic: In the New Yorker...  (Read 440932 times)

Offline Jeff Wrangler

  • BetterMost Supporter!
  • The BetterMost 10,000 Post Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 26,780
  • "He somebody you cowboy'd with?"
Re: In the New Yorker...
« Reply #1740 on: July 22, 2017, 03:18:45 pm »
What was it about the story that frightened you, friend Jeff? Was it the language the Trump supporters used when they said they were going to deliver Colorado to Trump: "We're going to start on the Western Slope and do a sweep east and color it red"?

I've overheard such language from my Republican son-in-law and my daughter. I was alarmed at first but then I realized it was all bluster.

There is a larger question related to this that I will ask you over on your blog, if that's okay.

I don't really care about their political opinions (well, actually I do), but the threats to journalists, the adoption of Trump's idiocy about fake news--even in a small-town/home-town newspaper, but especially the general lack of civility and threats of violence--especially threats of violence against people who disagree with you--for which I hold Trump responsible--that frighten me. If we had a Bastille, these people sound like they'd be ready to storm it.

If Trump were removed from office in any way, I would advise the people of Denver and Boulder to lay in ammunition because I really fear there could or would be violence against Democrats. And I ain't jokin'.

(Incidentally, I don't think it was the last-minute e-mail revelations that cost Hillary the election. I think it was the "deplorables" remark. How such an otherwise intelligent and politically savvy woman could make such a stupid remark is entirely beyond me. It was like that remark that Mitt Romney made about the 98%, or whatever it was.)

As for my blog, if what you wish to discuss is political, I'd rather you didn't. If you want to say something about the loss of civility in politics, that would be OK.

"It is required of every man that the spirit within him should walk abroad among his fellow-men, and travel far and wide."--Charles Dickens.

Offline serious crayons

  • BetterMost Moderator
  • The BetterMost 10,000 Post Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 18,119
Re: In the New Yorker...
« Reply #1741 on: July 22, 2017, 04:28:34 pm »
(Incidentally, I don't think it was the last-minute e-mail revelations that cost Hillary the election. I think it was the "deplorables" remark. How such an otherwise intelligent and politically savvy woman could make such a stupid remark is entirely beyond me. It was like that remark that Mitt Romney made about the 98%, or whatever it was.)

The phrase was ill-considered, but I don't think she was referring to average Trump supporters, like FRiend Lee's daughter for example. I think she was referring to members of the sexist/Islamophobic/white supermacist alt-right, like Steve Bannon and the since-disgraced Milo Yiannopoulis. In which case, I agree with her. Those people are deplorable (actually, the part of that phrase I hate the most is "basket of" -- hunh?). But she didn't make the distinction clear enough.

Still, I think her downfall was that too many people just Don't Like Hillary. Often for reasons I think are sexist or ridiculous -- she's been investigated so many times for so many supposed scandals and always come clean, which leads many people to think she must have done something shady, rather than that she's been under a microscope for 20 years, so if there were anything truly scandalous we'd know by now. I even think it's possible she has done some semi-questionable but not outright illegal things -- but compared to Trump she's practically saintly.

I don't know many conservatives, but the closest I heard among my right-leaning friends and acquaintances was that they hated both candidates but hated Hillary more. I'm not sure what they think now. If we're friends, I prefer to avoid the topic.

Especially after my one coworker friend said she voted for Trump and then later in the same conversation said why can't we have a healthcare system like Canada's. "Why don't you ask your conservative friends?" I said. She was dumbfounded. "No Republicans voted for Obamacare," she said, which is true, but ignores the fact that Obamacare would have been a lot stronger -- and more Canada-like -- if Obama didn't weaken it to placate Republicans. My coworker is a perfectly intelligent woman who I enjoy talking to otherwise, but who apparently does not pay nearly enough attention to the news.


Offline Front-Ranger

  • BetterMost Moderator
  • The BetterMost 10,000 Post Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 24,925
  • I'm marching for her!
Re: In the New Yorker...
« Reply #1742 on: July 24, 2017, 08:57:27 am »
So, now the Denver Post makes the schism between urban and rural Colorado its front page Sunday edition story: Colorado Divide, while The New Yorker and the Washington Post have already covered it. I suppose this story will crop up in other states too. The situation in Colorado is more dramatic since the Continental Divide separates Denver/Boulder from the more rural areas.

But I think the whole story is oversimplified and blown out of proportion. In the case of Colorado, how do you explain Aspen or Telluride? They're rural but even more liberal than Denver. There are also Colorado Springs and Pueblo, large metro areas that are really quite conservative. No, Grand Junction is an anomaly because of its dependence on the oil and gas industry. Working around oil and gas seems to make people become conservative. Is it the fumes?  :laugh:

I don't think my daughter is your average Trump supporter. She was educated, after all, at Boulder's Colorado University and is a Millennial. There are so few Millennials in the Republican Party that she has rocketed to star status. I came in a few days ago to babysit for her and she was applying false fingernails. I didn't say anything but wondered why a mother who washes baby bottles and changes diapers would want to wear false fingernails. It turned out that she was preparing to go to a photo shoot where her portrait would be taken for the cover of Colorado Politics Magazine.
May 2019 be better for us all.

Offline Jeff Wrangler

  • BetterMost Supporter!
  • The BetterMost 10,000 Post Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 26,780
  • "He somebody you cowboy'd with?"
Re: In the New Yorker...
« Reply #1743 on: July 24, 2017, 09:56:10 am »
But I think the whole story is oversimplified and blown out of proportion. In the case of Colorado, how do you explain Aspen or Telluride? They're rural but even more liberal than Denver. There are also Colorado Springs and Pueblo, large metro areas that are really quite conservative. No, Grand Junction is an anomaly because of its dependence on the oil and gas industry. Working around oil and gas seems to make people become conservative. Is it the fumes?  :laugh:

I would suspect that Aspen is the anomaly here, not Grand Junction. Think of all the outside money that has made it a playground for the rich and ... rich. Money, especially lots of money, makes a difference. I wouldn't be surprised if even "the ordinary people" whose jobs cater to the rich outsiders who come to Aspen are doing a lot better financially than the average inhabitant of Grand Junction.

Have you spoken with OCD about the week he was recently stuck there?

And Grand Junction, unlike Telluride, does not have a world famous film festival.
"It is required of every man that the spirit within him should walk abroad among his fellow-men, and travel far and wide."--Charles Dickens.

Offline Front-Ranger

  • BetterMost Moderator
  • The BetterMost 10,000 Post Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 24,925
  • I'm marching for her!
Re: In the New Yorker...
« Reply #1744 on: July 24, 2017, 12:06:15 pm »
Are you saying that rich people are more liberal???? I did not know that. (That's what I say to my children/grandchildren when they tell me something off the wall.)

Yes, I agree that Aspen is an anomaly. Telluride too, but not for its film festival (actually Telluride has many film festivals, music festivals, and every other kind of festival). Colorado is full of anomalies, towns famous for their eccentricities. Denver and Grand Junction are probably the most homogenous, though, the one on the right and the other on the left (figuratively, and literally if you look at them from the North Pole).

But Denver is a fairly large city and can't be lumped in with Boulder. Colorado elected a Republican Senator last year and we are grappling with the brown noser Cory Gardner who is largely responsible for getting that seat-stealer Neal Gorsuch into the Supreme Court. Colorado is a purple state and Denver is a purple town. There are many baskets of Ds all around and they aren't all in the boondocks.
May 2019 be better for us all.

Offline Jeff Wrangler

  • BetterMost Supporter!
  • The BetterMost 10,000 Post Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 26,780
  • "He somebody you cowboy'd with?"
Re: In the New Yorker...
« Reply #1745 on: July 24, 2017, 12:51:27 pm »
Are you saying that rich people are more liberal???? I did not know that. (That's what I say to my children/grandchildren when they tell me something off the wall.)

Good point, and taken. The Koch brothers certainly aren't. I should have been more specific. I was thinking of the Hollywood gliterati types about whom I've read they frequently use Aspen as their playgrond. Of course, I suppose it's possible there might be a difference between the rich and the very rich or super rich who presumably want to hold on to every penny.

Quote
Yes, I agree that Aspen is an anomaly. Telluride too, but not for its film festival (actually Telluride has many film festivals, music festivals, and every other kind of festival). Colorado is full of anomalies, towns famous for their eccentricities. Denver and Grand Junction are probably the most homogenous, though, the one on the right and the other on the left (figuratively, and literally if you look at them from the North Pole).

Interesting about Telluride. I have a friend who worked a September film festival for a couple of years some time ago. That was the only one I knew about.

Quote
But Denver is a fairly large city and can't be lumped in with Boulder. Colorado elected a Republican Senator last year and we are grappling with the brown noser Cory Gardner who is largely responsible for getting that seat-stealer Neal Gorsuch into the Supreme Court. Colorado is a purple state and Denver is a purple town. There are many baskets of Ds all around and they aren't all in the boondocks.

Hessler does. See page 21.

I don't think Hessler is an outsider. I'm sure I remember reading something quite some time ago about him settling somewhere in the Western Slope after years of living in China. (Of course, perhaps that does make him an outsider after all.)

Incidentally, "I did not know that" might work for your grandchildren, but I would be wary of using that to another adult outside your immediately family. It might be perceived as condescending and even insulting. Just sayin'.
« Last Edit: July 24, 2017, 05:01:43 pm by Jeff Wrangler »
"It is required of every man that the spirit within him should walk abroad among his fellow-men, and travel far and wide."--Charles Dickens.

Offline serious crayons

  • BetterMost Moderator
  • The BetterMost 10,000 Post Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 18,119
Re: In the New Yorker...
« Reply #1746 on: July 24, 2017, 05:33:19 pm »
The average Trump voter's annual income was $72,000. Not rich, but not poor. Presumably many went to college. Rich people voted for Trump because they assumed, apparently correctly, that he would act in their interest (see: attempts to pass Republican health care bill to benefit rich people and screw over everybody else) and fill the government with people who acted in their interest. Poorer people voted for Trump believed, incorrectly, that he would "drain the swamp," restore failing industries like coal mining so they could get jobs, etc. They were people who believed the fake news items about Hillary Clinton committing murders. They were people who didn't hear about, ignored or excused a lot of Trump's behavior. He wore a baseball cap and talked like a regular Joe and seemed like one of them except that he'd built a fortune so he must be smart about money (never mind six bankruptcies and a rich dad who bailed him out) and who would side with them against the "elites."

Lee, I can't explain where your daughter fits into that picture, but that's my understanding of the two most common Trump supporters. Some people are just regular conservatives, I guess. In a way, it's kind of cool that she's become such a media superstar! If only it were for a different reason.

I don't know about Denver, but most big cities are blue-ish and you are obviously much more of an expert than I am but Denver has always struck me that way. Aspen and Telluride are anomalies. It would be like saying Texas can't be conservative because Austin. Or Oregon is totally liberal because Portland. Minneapolis and St. Paul are very blue, suburbs purple, rural areas red (which is new -- outstate MN used to be more blue). But because the cities are so much bigger than everything else, MN always goes for Democrats.

I'm partway through the scary Colorado article but what has struck me so far is the stuff about the crime rate in rural cities (if that's not too much of an oxymoron). I thought Trump's depiction of the cities as cauldrons of violent crime seemed crazy -- violent crime is waaayyyyyyy down. Chicago -- infamous for violent crime! -- had 762 murders in 2016. That's about twice as many murders annually as New Orleans had when I lived there (when the city averaged about one a day), but Chicago is about six times bigger.

So Trump's claims seemed wildly absurd. But if people in Grand Junction and places like that are seeing homicides soar, I can see why that argument would seem valid to them.

I talked to someone from Colorado on Facebook about economics. Lee, maybe she was even a friend of yours! I told her there were actual job shortages in many industries and the recovery economy actually looks pretty good (nationally, wages have stayed flat, but even they're beginning to rise slightly, and corporate profits have of course soared). She argued, saying the exact opposite is true in CO. I didn't understand it at the time, but the article addresses that pretty clearly, so now I get what she was talking about.




Offline serious crayons

  • BetterMost Moderator
  • The BetterMost 10,000 Post Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 18,119
Re: In the New Yorker...
« Reply #1747 on: July 24, 2017, 05:49:52 pm »
The Personal History essay by the woman whose 15-year-old cousin went to prison is devastating.

You were right about this issue having lots of good articles, Jeff.


Offline Jeff Wrangler

  • BetterMost Supporter!
  • The BetterMost 10,000 Post Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 26,780
  • "He somebody you cowboy'd with?"
Re: In the New Yorker...
« Reply #1748 on: July 24, 2017, 06:03:42 pm »
The Personal History essay by the woman whose 15-year-old cousin went to prison is devastating.

I'm reading that one now. Sad.  :(
"It is required of every man that the spirit within him should walk abroad among his fellow-men, and travel far and wide."--Charles Dickens.

Offline Jeff Wrangler

  • BetterMost Supporter!
  • The BetterMost 10,000 Post Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 26,780
  • "He somebody you cowboy'd with?"
Re: In the New Yorker...
« Reply #1749 on: July 26, 2017, 01:02:07 pm »
I am currently enjoying the George Strait profile (July 24). For one thing, I now understand all the (expensive) George Strait clothes I've seen in stores in the Denver area, including shirts with button-down collars (George Strait wears shirts with button-down collars).

When Strait was younger, he participated in team roping (I guess he could afford a ropin' horse).

The article quotes the opening stanza of one of his songs, which the writer calls "one of the most memorable in country music."

Amarillo by morning
Up from San Antone
Everything that I got
Is just what I've got on.

The writer describes this song as "the stoic lament of a travelling rodeo pro."

Sound like anybody we know?
"It is required of every man that the spirit within him should walk abroad among his fellow-men, and travel far and wide."--Charles Dickens.