Author Topic: Where the Allegheny Meets the Monongahela - New story by Testa Dura!  (Read 23991 times)

Offline louisev

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Re: Where the Allegheny Meets the Monongahela - New story by Testa Dura!
« Reply #10 on: March 09, 2009, 01:07:51 pm »
Hm, well I took a look.  It makes no sense for there to be Wyoming dialect in a story about Pittsburgh.
“Mr. Coyote always gets me good, boy,”  Ellery said, winking.  “Almost forgot what life was like before I got me my own personal coyote.”


Offline Brown Eyes

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Re: Where the Allegheny Meets the Monongahela - New story by Testa Dura!
« Reply #11 on: March 09, 2009, 01:21:35 pm »
Hm, well I took a look.  It makes no sense for there to be Wyoming dialect in a story about Pittsburgh.


Well, I confess I still haven't read the first two chapters of this new story.  Is it conceivable that they're meant to have moved to Pittsburgh from Wyoming?

I mean, I have friends here in Pittsburgh who have British accents and one good friend with a southern accent.

the world was asleep to our latent fuss - bowie

Offline louisev

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Re: Where the Allegheny Meets the Monongahela - New story by Testa Dura!
« Reply #12 on: March 09, 2009, 03:44:26 pm »

Well, I confess I still haven't read the first two chapters of this new story.  Is it conceivable that they're meant to have moved to Pittsburgh from Wyoming?

I mean, I have friends here in Pittsburgh who have British accents and one good friend with a southern accent.



no sign of that being part of the plot so far, no.  Alma's family apparently is nearby, and there are other indications that they are long-term residents of the immediate area.  Even so, considering that the geography is intrinsic to the title and to the plot, the peculiarity of their dialect would need to be part of the back story right away to keep people like me wondering why they don't talk like Pennsylvanians.

What's even more baffling is that in the second chapter, Jack Twist and his boss DO talk like Pennsylvanians.  Or at least, mostly.  Still no explanation of why the del Mar household is in a different dialect.
“Mr. Coyote always gets me good, boy,”  Ellery said, winking.  “Almost forgot what life was like before I got me my own personal coyote.”


Offline Brown Eyes

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Re: Where the Allegheny Meets the Monongahela - New story by Testa Dura!
« Reply #13 on: March 09, 2009, 04:12:58 pm »
Well, FWIW, my friend with the southern accent has lived here for over 20 years.  A dialect issue wouldn't bother me too much.

I'm still reluctant to dive into this story because of the theme described in the synopsis.  I think I'll have to be in just the right mood to actually sit down and read it.

It's also kind of interesting to think of the range of BBM fandom stories that take place in very different locales from the original story.  Testa Dura's other stories take place in Colorado (if my memory serves me correctly), so obviously much closer to the original.  I often wonder why folks decide to shift locations so much.

the world was asleep to our latent fuss - bowie

Offline Mikaela

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Re: Where the Allegheny Meets the Monongahela - New story by Testa Dura!
« Reply #14 on: March 09, 2009, 05:29:26 pm »
Now, here's the upside to being a clueless foreigner: I have no idea how they speak in Pittsburg and in what way that is different from accents and mannerisms in Wyoming. It's all pretty much just "English" with some idioms thrown in to me. So there's no way such issues can distract me from the plot and characters!  :)

I think the fic is off to a promising start, and I liked the image of the two rivers coming from different directions, meeting, and after some initial struggles, rapids and muddy waters forming one bigger, stronger and united one. It seems very fitting in order to describe the J&E that might be emerging in the fic when we get to know them better.

I'm sure more backstory as to the fic's Dal Mar family will be provided in due course - without going back to check now, I think the story did say they'd moved from somewhere else when Ennis got the job he lost after few weeks when he couldn't keep his temper in check, maybe that wasn't the first time they moved either.

Offline louisev

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Re: Where the Allegheny Meets the Monongahela - New story by Testa Dura!
« Reply #15 on: March 09, 2009, 05:32:23 pm »
Now, here's the upside to being a clueless foreigner: I have no idea how they speak in Pittsburg and in what way that is different from accents and mannerisms in Wyoming. It's all pretty much just "English" with some idioms thrown in to me. So there's no way such issues can distract me from the plot and characters!  :)

I think the fic is off to a promising start, and I liked the image of the two rivers coming from different directions, meeting, and after some initial struggles, rapids and muddy waters forming one bigger, stronger and united one. It seems very fitting in order to describe the J&E that might be emerging in the fic when we get to know them better.

I'm sure more backstory as to the fic's Dal Mar family will be provided in due course - without going back to check now, I think the story did say they'd moved from somewhere else when Ennis got the job he lost after few weeks when he couldn't keep his temper in check, maybe that wasn't the first time they moved either.

yes, they moved 50 miles.  The accent he and Alma are using are from 1500 miles further away.
“Mr. Coyote always gets me good, boy,”  Ellery said, winking.  “Almost forgot what life was like before I got me my own personal coyote.”


Offline Mikaela

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Re: Where the Allegheny Meets the Monongahela - New story by Testa Dura!
« Reply #16 on: March 09, 2009, 07:21:14 pm »
Well, as I said, maybe that wasn't the first time they moved.

But at any rate, I think it shapes up to be a good fic, and even if I did know enough to distinguish the various US dialects I hardly think some inconsistency in that regard would be an obstacle to my personal enjoyment.

I think for me, it's first and foremost characterization that is the make or break deal in whether a fic speaks to me. So we shall see.

Offline RouxB

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Re: Where the Allegheny Meets the Monongahela - New story by Testa Dura!
« Reply #17 on: March 09, 2009, 08:37:10 pm »
I was hesitant to read it as well because I hate "bad!Ennis" stories but I took a chance. I read the 2nd chapter first and it made the first chapter much easier to manage.
As for dialect-it's an interesting thing. In written form, Ennis and Alma could have been black people from Birmingham AL cause they kinda sound like my father.

Heathen

Offline Brown Eyes

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Re: Where the Allegheny Meets the Monongahela - New story by Testa Dura!
« Reply #18 on: March 09, 2009, 08:38:24 pm »

I think the fic is off to a promising start, and I liked the image of the two rivers coming from different directions, meeting, and after some initial struggles, rapids and muddy waters forming one bigger, stronger and united one. It seems very fitting in order to describe the J&E that might be emerging in the fic when we get to know them better.


Heya Mikaela!
 
Here's a photograph of downtown Pittsburgh.  From this angle you're pretty much looking east from the Ohio River towards the Allegheny (the smaller river to the left in the pic) and the Mon (the larger river to the right).  This part of the city is called the Point, because it's where the 3 rivers converge and the bit of land that contains downtown comes to such a crisp point.  The camera is positioned on the south side of the Mon. River.  Lots of steel mills used to dot both rivers and the Ohio, but now most of those are completely gone.  The Edgar Thompson Works steel mill mentioned in the story is one of the only steel mills that still exists in the area (and one of the oldest/ most historic mills).  If you follow the Mon. from this point shown in the picture for many miles southeast passed downtown you'd eventually come to the mill.  And, the mill is in the borough of Braddock, as the story mentions.  Braddock is a tough part of the metro area... but there are also little artist enclaves in that area too these days.

<img src="http://www.divshare.com/img/3386061-e25.jpg" border="0" />

The confluence of the rivers is a nice metaphor for Jack and Ennis coming together.   I agree.

All of the local details seem accurate in this story so far.  The borough names, neighborhood names, street names, etc. are accurate.  For instance, Observatory Hill, mentioned in reference to Jack and his mother is on the "North Side"... meaning the land north of the Allegheny River.  In terms of Pittsburgh geography, Ennis and Jack are more or less coming from opposite ends of the city.

I just finished reading the two chapters, so I feel like I can comment here for real.  The incident between Ennis and Alma was certainly hard to read.  But, there was a good sense of realism to it.  I'm not terribly surprised that Testa Dura would be interested in dealing with violence against women as a theme, and handling it in a serious way... In her other stories (I don't think this is really much of a spoiler), one of the main "other characters" is a woman who has survived a rape and a lot of attention is paid to the repurcussions of that event on her life, etc.  

I'll be particularly curious to see how Jack's role develops.  I also really liked his boss Trudy.

And, not to be-labor the discussion about accents and dialects... I noticed that Jack and Trudy don't seem to speak the same way as Ennis and Alma.  The writing of Jack and Trudy's dialogue seems very straight-forward and un-accented.  I wonder if the missing "g's" at the end of words when Ennis and Alma speak might be meant as an indicator of different social group.  I'm not sure that dropping the "g" at the end of a verb, like "goin'" or "walkin'", etc. is necessarily exclusive to Wyoming or a western accent.  The use of "warsh" I thought might be an attempt at throwing in a Brokieism.  But, yes, I think it's too soon to really know a lot about the backgrounds of any of the characters.

p.s. Heya Roux!  You're post came in as I was writing this. :)

« Last Edit: March 09, 2009, 10:30:22 pm by atz75 »
the world was asleep to our latent fuss - bowie

Offline RouxB

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Re: Where the Allegheny Meets the Monongahela - New story by Testa Dura!
« Reply #19 on: March 09, 2009, 09:32:19 pm »
Hey Sweetness!

Thanks for the detail you added-it really makes the story much more interesting. Being from opposite ends of the city mirrors the original story-being from opposite ends of the state. Or maybe more just being opposites.

I agree that dropping "g's may not be an indiction of origin and may be more of a socioeconomic indicator. I was teased mercilessly growing up for my speech because it was "proper" and I didn't talk like many of my peers. My sister and I have somewhat different pronunciations (my brother and I are quite similar) but it may be due to her being an ex-pat. There are many influences on people's speech patterns so, at this point, I wouldn't hold that against the story  :P

Heathen