Author Topic: Don't Never Order Soup...  (Read 10805 times)

Offline serious crayons

  • BetterMost Moderator
  • The BetterMost 10,000 Post Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 22,712
Re: Don't Never Order Soup...
« Reply #10 on: July 25, 2006, 11:15:33 pm »
Wow, Mel-O-Tron! That's fantastic. I know that according to the rules I should come up with a whole 'nother interpretation but yours is so good I am totally convinced by it. And here's another instance of it: Ennis, at least after the divorce, didn't have a phone. (He had to send a card to announce his divorce, and then use a pay phone to call Lureen.) So yet more evidence that Jack's dreams don't have a chance with Ennis, so ...

OK, wait, wait -- another interpretation is suggesting itself. Or actually it's sort of the flip side of Mel's. Maybe phones, or lack thereof, represent Ennis' obstinacy toward Jack's offers. Not on your fucking life would Ennis change his mind. Ennis doesn't own a phone because he's not willing to listen to them. He does talk to his boss on the phone, but that's because he puts work as a higher priority than his relationship with Jack. But in the end, after talking to Lureen, he embraces the phone, realizing his mistake ...


Offline nakymaton

  • BetterMost 1000+ Posts Club
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,045
  • aka Mel
Re: Don't Never Order Soup...
« Reply #11 on: July 25, 2006, 11:24:22 pm »
That's it! That's the answer to all my questions about what BBM means to me! I am afraid of telephones (seriously, really, I am, or at least of calling people on the phone). BBM is telling me... embrace the phone. Do not fear the phone.
Watch out. That poster has a low startle point.

Offline serious crayons

  • BetterMost Moderator
  • The BetterMost 10,000 Post Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 22,712
Re: Don't Never Order Soup...
« Reply #12 on: July 25, 2006, 11:33:19 pm »
So sad. If only Jack and Ennis could have communicated by email ...

But then all of their interactions would have taken on even more scarily literal meanings. And there wouldn't have been enough smileys in the world to keep them together ...

"I wish I knew how to quit you!"  >:( :'(  :-* :-\

"Well, why don't you? Why don't you let me be?"  ???  :-X :-* :'(

PS That's the first time I've had a chance to use that X-mouthed smiley. I have no idea what it's supposed to mean, but it seems like it would apply to a lot of Ennis' lines.

Offline Front-Ranger

  • BetterMost Moderator
  • The BetterMost 10,000 Post Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 30,288
  • Brokeback got us good.
Re: Don't Never Order Soup...
« Reply #13 on: July 26, 2006, 12:47:04 pm »
THere was another reference to a phone that will perhaps shed some light on all the other references. That's when Jack, talking into the whiskey bottle, says, "When it comes to our marriage, we could do it over the phone." I'm still in a muddle about the phone, however, so I'll send this for a spin thru the mel-o-tron and see what comes out!  :)
"chewing gum and duct tape"

Offline serious crayons

  • BetterMost Moderator
  • The BetterMost 10,000 Post Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 22,712
Re: Don't Never Order Soup...
« Reply #14 on: July 26, 2006, 01:16:21 pm »
So how about phone = marriage, or life partnership, or commitment?

No fuckin way will Jack and Ennis have it. Ennis isn't even willing to consider having one. He will take a call, though, from his boss. Jack and Lureen may not have the greatest marriage, but they are still connected by that phone. And after talking to Lureen, Ennis belatedly and sadly embraces the phone.

For that matter, all forms of long-distance communication seem to play a role. Ennis and Jack, when apart, communicate entirely by postcards. At the end, Ennis has a postcard by the shirts, as if to keep that line of communication open. Meanwhile, he has retreated from the world so much that he doesn't go into the PO in town anymore -- instead, he has a mailbox. Or does that suggest he's still holding out the hope of receiving "mail"?

Offline David

  • BetterMost 5000+ Posts Club
  • *******
  • Posts: 5,097
Re: Don't Never Order Soup...
« Reply #15 on: July 26, 2006, 01:46:02 pm »
. Meanwhile, he has retreated from the world so much that he doesn't go into the PO in town anymore -- instead, he has a mailbox.

That was my thought.    Alot of people thought the mailbox was a good sign.   I didn't think so.  To me, this was his way of avoiding people in town, whether hopefull girls like Cassie or suspicious eyes from the townsfolk.

"you ever go outside and see someone looking at you and think that he knows?"

« Last Edit: July 26, 2006, 01:49:48 pm by DavidinHartford »

Offline nakymaton

  • BetterMost 1000+ Posts Club
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,045
  • aka Mel
Re: Don't Never Order Soup...
« Reply #16 on: July 26, 2006, 05:10:04 pm »
Poor Ennis. He clearly needs some high-speed internet in his life.

So the work phone call means that Ennis is married to his work?

I wonder what a cell phone would mean in this context.
Watch out. That poster has a low startle point.

Offline Front-Ranger

  • BetterMost Moderator
  • The BetterMost 10,000 Post Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 30,288
  • Brokeback got us good.
Re: Don't Never Order Soup...
« Reply #17 on: July 29, 2006, 04:45:31 pm »
In a way, the post cards are like the binoculars. Jack and Ennis correspond through the post cards, believing themselves to be invisible, but Alma reads and makes note of what they say. And at the end a bureaucratic rubber stamp obscures what's on the card Ennis sends Jack. They are being watched through the post cards just as they were watched by Aguirre through the binoculars. It's clear at the end that Ennis has a fond spot for post cards since he includes one in the shrine he's set up in the closet. So, that's why I think the mailbox is a nostalgia thing, put up by Ennis in  hopes of receiving a post card or two from his daughters one day. And lo and behold, as soon as he puts up the mailbox, his daughter appears!! Post cards figure in Annie Proulx's other works, in fact she wrote a novel called Post Cards in which replicas of hand written post cards appear throughout the book.

I see the post cards this way because of a personal experience I had while in college. I was home on break and my travelling boyfriend sent me a post card mentioning how much he was looking forward to lying beside my naked body when he returned. I caught hell for it (I didn't do anything!! >:() and never did get to see the actual post card, which my parents threw away.

Thank you for bringing this up Katherine, because I've been meaning to discuss the post cards for, oh, about eight months now!!
« Last Edit: July 29, 2006, 05:47:07 pm by Front-Ranger »
"chewing gum and duct tape"

Offline Front-Ranger

  • BetterMost Moderator
  • The BetterMost 10,000 Post Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 30,288
  • Brokeback got us good.
Re: Don't Never Order Soup...
« Reply #18 on: September 01, 2006, 03:28:33 pm »
Considering the events of today, I'd say Ennis should be sending up a prayer of thanks to his lucky stars that he lived before high-speed Internet, Mel!!!!!!!!!!!
"chewing gum and duct tape"

Offline laurel

  • Sr. Ranch Hand
  • ***
  • Posts: 87
  • Heath, we'll never forget you.
Re: Don't Never Order Soup...
« Reply #19 on: September 01, 2006, 07:00:32 pm »
I just found this thread today.  I know I'm a little late to the party, but I'm hoping the Mel-O-Tron can help me out.  What do you think is the significance that in Annie Proulx's story, Ennis notifies Jack of his divorce by phone (the ONLY time they ever spoke on the phone), but in the movie, Ennis informs Jack of the divorce by post card?! ;D
What Jack remembered and craved in a way he could neither help nor understand was the time that distant summer on Brokeback when Ennis had come up behind him and pulled him close, the silent embrace satisfying some shared and sexless hunger.   -Annie Proulx (Icon by alighttofollow)