Why is the "dozy embrace" in the film?

[Brown Eyes]

Just as an interesting exercise... here are the definitions of "embrace" and "hold" according to the dictionary I have on hand at the moment (Webster's Ninth Collegiate Dictionary- a nice leather bound copy I might add  ).

Anyway, I'm maintaining the dictionary's capitalization and puncutation here. I'm omitting some extraneous info about pronunciation and grammar (and I'm omitting the little examples of usage contained within the definitions in the dictionary text).  The two definitions of "embrace" are essentially the complete entries for this word (as a verb and as a noun).  I'm being more selective with "hold" because the definition is extremely long... and frankly no one wants to read all of it I'm guessing. I'll give you the first 7 definitions of "hold" as a verb out of almost a page of variations.  In any case, the definitions for "embrace" seem quite poetic when we think about our boys.  "Hold" contains within it some more problematic meanings.  The more I read the definitions of "hold" the more disturbing it actually is to think of it as being part of a marriage ceremony (a context noted in an earlier post)- since its main meanings have to do with possession, physical containment and control - even repression.  In a way, the choice of the word "embrace" seems to be a pretty direct word to choose to convey the idea of a sweet hug.  It seems like a much less complex word and a more unproblematically romantic word.  For what it's worth.

em-brace, vb-
1) a: to clasp in the arms: HUG b: CHERISH. LOVE  2):  ENCIRCLE, ENCLOSE 3) a: to take up esp. readily or gladly b: to avail oneself of: WELCOME 4) a: to take in or include as a part, item, or element of a more enclusive whole b: to be equal or equivalent vt: to participate in an embrace  syn: see ADOPT, INCLUDE

em-brace, n-
1): a close encircling with the arms and pressure to the bosom esp. as a sign of affection: HUG 2): GRIP, ENCIRCLEMENT 3): ACCEPTANCE


hold, vb-
1) a: to have possession or ownership of or have at one's disposal  b: to have the as a privilege or position of responsibility c: to have as a mark of distinction  2): to keep under restraint  a: to prevent free expression of  b: to prevent from some action c: to keep back from use  d: to delay temporarily the handling of  3): to make liable or accountable or bound to an obligation  4) a: to have or maintainin the grasp  b: to support or keep from falling or moving  c: to bear the pressure of: SUPPORT  5): to prevent from leaving or getting away  a: to avoid emitting or letting out b: to restrain as or as if a captive 6) a: to enclose and keep in a container or within bounds: CONTAIN b: to be able to consume easily or without due effect  c: ACCOMMODATE d: to have as a principal or essential feature or attribute; also to have in store  7) a: to have in the mind or express as a judgment, opinion or belief  b: to think of in a particular way: REGARD

[serious crayons]

That's interesting, Amanda. "Embrace" also seems to me to be more about love or affection than "hold."

In any case, I think it would be pretty easy for the filmmakers to suggest physical reluctance on Ennis' part, if they wanted to. For instance, they do just that, before the sexual part of their relationship begins, in the post-bear scene -- Ennis won't accept Jack's nurturing. But in the parallel post-Earl story scene, he does.

Also, it's very meaningful to me that Ennis NEVER looks anything less than thrilled to see Jack. Even in the post-divorce scene, his initial reaction is a smile and huge hug.

[jpwagoneer1964]

That's interesting, Amanda. "Embrace" also seems to me to be more about love or affection than "hold."

In any case, I think it would be pretty easy for the filmmakers to suggest physical reluctance on Ennis' part, if they wanted to. For instance, they do just that, before the sexual part of their relationship begins, in the post-bear scene -- Ennis won't accept Jack's nurturing. But in the parallel post-Earl story scene, he does.

Also, it's very meaningful to me that Ennis NEVER looks anything less than thrilled to see Jack. Even in the post-divorce scene, his initial reaction is a smile and huge hug.

Excellent point. And remember the friendly jostling  after shootuing the elk?

[nakymaton]

Ennis's conflicted looks seem to show up when he's brought out of the immediate moment and has to think about longterm plans or about the rest of the world.* (Examples -- when Ennis comes back to see the tent coming down; when Jack says "what're we gonna do now" in the Motel Siesta; after Jack mentions the cow and calf operation; after Jack give the first "kiss me" look in the post-divorce scene.)

*(At least from TS2 on. I think Ennis looks pretty confused on the morning after TS1.)

But, yeah, Katherine, Ennis looks happiest and least conflicted in little moments with Jack.

[serious crayons]

Ennis's conflicted looks seem to show up when he's brought out of the immediate moment and has to think about longterm plans or about the rest of the world.* (Examples -- when Ennis comes back to see the tent coming down; when Jack says "what're we gonna do now" in the Motel Siesta; after Jack mentions the cow and calf operation; after Jack give the first "kiss me" look in the post-divorce scene.)

Very good point, Mel. Although I'd argue that those are different kinds of examples. When Ennis sees the tent coming down, his look to me is purely about disappointment over having to part with Jack prematurely, not discomfort about their relationship itself. Same thing in the motel; he's sad that the happiness with Jack can't last. But in the cow-and-calf scene and the post-divorce "kiss me" moment -- as well as the "why don't you move to Texas" scene -- his reaction more clearly shows him feeling that Jack is coming on too strong.

*(At least from TS2 on. I think Ennis looks pretty confused on the morning after TS1.)

That's true. It's like he turns a corner in TS2.

Ennis looks happiest and least conflicted in little moments with Jack.

The one I always think of is the "look what I brought" scene -- such a fleeting moment, but the huge happy smiles they both give upon seeing each other says a lot.

As long as their relationship stays status quo and sticks to Ennis' rules, he's happy when they're together. Even in those last scenes he seems very content. There's no doubt that Ennis was uncomfortable about the fact that he was in a relationship with a man. But he didn't let those doubts affect his affectionate behavior toward Jack, except on those occasions when Jack tried to push their relationship to a different level.

[dly64]

In any case, the definitions for "embrace" seem quite poetic when we think about our boys.  "Hold" contains within it some more problematic meanings.  The more I read the definitions of "hold" the more disturbing it actually is to think of it as being part of a marriage ceremony (a context noted in an earlier post)- since its main meanings have to do with possession, physical containment and control - even repression.  In a way, the choice of the word "embrace" seems to be a pretty direct word to choose to convey the idea of a sweet hug.  It seems like a much less complex word and a more unproblematically romantic word.

Amanda – the sad thing is, I read those definitions previously and found that “hold” was more permanent, not so temporary. (What does that say about me?) But, I see your point and the others’. “Embrace” is a much more affectionate term.

Very good point, Mel. Although I'd argue that those are different kinds of examples. When Ennis sees the tent coming down, his look to me is purely about disappointment over having to part with Jack prematurely, not discomfort about their relationship itself. Same thing in the motel; he's sad that the happiness with Jack can't last. But in the cow-and-calf scene and the post-divorce "kiss me" moment -- as well as the "why don't you move to Texas" scene -- his reaction more clearly shows him feeling that Jack is coming on too strong.

As long as their relationship stays status quo and sticks to Ennis' rules, he's happy when they're together. Even in those last scenes he seems very content. There's no doubt that Ennis was uncomfortable about the fact that he was in a relationship with a man. But he didn't let those doubts affect his affectionate behavior toward Jack, except on those occasions when Jack tried to push their relationship to a different level.

Their relationship on the mountain was different than post-mountain. What I mean by this is that, yes, Ennis was unable to face the reality that this was a man he loved. What they had on BBM, however, was freedom. It implies in the film (it is more explicitly stated in the story) that they started having sex only at night in the tent and then moved it outside in “full daylight”. At their reunion, their passion for each other is intense. Untypical of Ennis, he can’t wait to kiss Jack so he pushes Jack into the stairwell. It is important to note one thing …. after they have stopped kissing and Jack’s hand is still holding Ennis, Ennis pulls the arm down. Ennis gives Jack an affectionate nuzzle, but after that point Ennis never takes the risk again to be seen with Jack publicly.

When Jack comes to see Ennis post divorce, there are a few things that make Ennis uncomfortable. One is that Jack has come to see him at his residence. You can see Ennis’ paranoia when the pickup drives by. The second thing is that Jack wants to kiss Ennis. Notice this time that Ennis pulls Jack’s arm down and backs away (which is a contrast to the nuzzle at the time of their reunion).

I bring all of this up because I don’t think Ennis believes Jack is coming on too strong (except for the Texas conversation …). I think it all lies in Ennis’ childhood memory of seeing a dismembered and mutilated Earl. He doesn’t have a life with Jack because he is homophobic and full of fear. This leads to Ennis’ mantra for the remainder of their relationship:

“… we’re around each other and this thing grabs hold of us again in the wrong place, at the wrong time, and we’re dead ….

Two guys livin’ together? No way. We can get together once in a while way out in the middle of nowhere, but …”

Ennis remains affectionate and vulnerable towards Jack, but is unable to give himself in the way that Jack craves.

[nakymaton]

When Jack comes to see Ennis post divorce, there are a few things that make Ennis uncomfortable. One is that Jack has come to see him at his residence. You can see Ennis’ paranoia when the pickup drives by. The second thing is that Jack wants to kiss Ennis. Notice this time that Ennis pulls Jack’s arm down and backs away (which is a contrast to the nuzzle at the time of their reunion).

I bring all of this up because I don’t think Ennis believes Jack is coming on too strong (except for the Texas conversation …). I think it all lies in Ennis’ childhood memory of seeing a dismembered and mutilated Earl. He doesn’t have a life with Jack because he is homophobic and full of fear.

Yeah, there are a lot of things in the post-divorce scene that hit Ennis's low startle point. (I shortened it way too much by just mentioning Jack's attempt to kiss Ennis.) Jack at Ennis's house, Ennis's daughters sitting there in Ennis's truck, those ten people Jack asked where Ennis had gone, that white truck that goes by... all of those would make Ennis feel very unsafe out there in his driveway. I think Jack was too elated about what he thought Ennis had meant in that postcard to realize that Ennis's driveway wasn't the middle of nowhere, at least not to Ennis.

I don't think that Ennis's peaceful look is the result of being in control of the situation. I see it as moments when Ennis isn't thinking about what he's supposed to be, or about what could happen... moments when Ennis simply IS. (I'm imagining something like the state that one is supposed to try to acheive in Zen meditation, I guess.)

[serious crayons]

I bring all of this up because I don’t think Ennis believes Jack is coming on too strong (except for the Texas conversation …). I think it all lies in Ennis’ childhood memory of seeing a dismembered and mutilated Earl.

Well, I think he also believes Jack is coming on too strong in the cow-and-calf scene -- when I say "coming on too strong," I mean Ennis feels he's trying to push the relationship to a level that makes Ennis uncomfortable.

In the post divorce scene, it's true that Ennis shies away at a number of points, several of them innocuous, like the white truck and Jack asking the 10 people. (And somebody pointed out that, by the same token, 90 percent of the people in town don't pay much attention to Ennis' business.)

But I'll have to say I guess I can understand why Ennis would hesitate to kiss Jack in front of his daughters. For reasons that go even beyond homophobia.

[jpwagoneer1964]

Well, I think he also believes Jack is coming on too strong in the cow-and-calf scene -- when I say "coming on too strong," I mean Ennis feels he's trying to push the relationship to a level that makes Ennis uncomfortable.

 

There is a look Ennis gives at the end of "cow calf operation..." just as Jack touches his ear like 'I know I wish we could but...' or 'You only make it worse when you reach for me, that we cant be together.'

[dly64]

I don't think that Ennis's peaceful look is the result of being in control of the situation. I see it as moments when Ennis isn't thinking about what he's supposed to be, or about what could happen... moments when Ennis simply IS.

I agree. The truth is, Ennis mostly just “IS” while on BBM … before the “real world” stripped him of his inhibitions and before he had domestic responsibilities. What they could have had just breaks me in two every time I think about it!

Well, I think he also believes Jack is coming on too strong in the cow-and-calf scene -- when I say "coming on too strong," I mean Ennis feels he's trying to push the relationship to a level that makes Ennis uncomfortable.

Alright … that makes more sense to me. 

In the post divorce scene, it's true that Ennis shies away at a number of points, several of them innocuous, like the white truck and Jack asking the 10 people. (And somebody pointed out that, by the same token, 90 percent of the people in town don't pay much attention to Ennis' business.)

But I'll have to say I guess I can understand why Ennis would hesitate to kiss Jack in front of his daughters. For reasons that go even beyond homophobia.

Yeah … I can see that, too. The girls look a little puzzled as to who this guy is (even though I figure Alma, Jr. sort of figured it out when she got older).

OT: I happened to think of this while I was writing. The following exchange has always puzzled me. Unsure why, but it does. Alma, Jr. and Cassie have this dialogue in the bar:
Cassie:  …. Your daddy ever gonna see fit to settle down again?
Alma, Jr. Don’t know … Maybe he’s not the marrying kind.
Cassie: You don’t think so? Or you don’t think I’m the one for him?
Alma, Jr. You’re good enough.
Cassie: You don’t say much, but you get your point across.

What is really being said here? I have always thought that Alma, Jr. figures that Ennis is gay and has no idea why he is wasting time with this person. I just don’t know. Any thoughts?

There is a look Ennis gives at the end of "cow calf operation..." just as Jack touches his ear like 'I know I wish we could but...' or 'You only make it worse when you reach for me, that we cant be together.'

Are you saying that Ennis has inner turmoil? If that is the case, yes. Every time they get together and have to say goodbye, I think it is tense. Secretly does Ennis want a life with Jack? I think so … but that is the romantic in me again.