Why is the "dozy embrace" in the film?

[Brown Eyes]

You're so right (do U have more of a name, or did yr parents just stop at dly64? ) Those are two other good examples. ALso, remember when Ennis and Jr. are talking in the cab and she cuts him off when he starts to say, "That doesn't mean I wouldn't like..." She protects him from having to squeamishly say he loves her, even jumping out of the truck before he can say goodbye. No hugs, no I love you, but he does call her sweetheart. I would have liked to hear little darlin there... 

Well, I noticed that Ennis calls Alma Jr. "darlin" (I don't think I heard a "little") in the bar after Cassie's tense conversation with Alma Jr.  When Cassie drags Ennis to the dance floor, Ennis says something like "excuse me darlin".

On the topic of Jack and Ennis's self realization... I think this is really important.  If the moment that Aguirre tosses Ennis the watch in the trailer at the beginning is the start of the "timeline" or the "never enough time" dilemma in the movie, then Jack's first verbal introduction with Ennis must be important too.  I like the idea that Jack sort of prods Ennis to expose more of himself, by not letting Ennis get away with only saying his first name.  This brief introduction also immediately introduces the topic of parents with the use of the word "folks" (which obviously becomes extremely important in the story on many levels).

I think Jack taught Ennis an enormous amount about himself and love/intimacy throughout their relationship.  People have noted that Jack's intimate gesture of stroking Ennis's cheek after the Earl story seems to have taught Ennis about this kind of intimacy.  And, it seems that Ennis tries this gesture out himself when he strokes Jenny's cheek at Thanksgiving.  It's cute that Ennis seems to have learned his lesson about including his last name when making introductions following the encounter with Jack... as you note in the Cassie introduction.  I wonder about Ennis's final postcard to Jack (the one that is returned) because he signed it "Ennis Del Mar"  as if Jack would be confused about which Ennis might be writing to him.  But, maybe this had become an inside joke with them over the years.  Maybe when Ennis includes his last name in his introduction with Cassie, this is a clue to the audience that Ennis is thinking (as usual) about Jack.  I think all the men in the bar with black hats are also a clue to Jack being on Ennis's mind here.

[Front-Ranger]

Very perceptive comments. I just have a question about the first one. I thought Ennis said "Xcuse me daughter" when he was being drug to the dance floor.

[fernly]

I think there is significance when Jack introduces himself and Ennis replies by only giving his first name. Jack asks him, “did your folks just stop at Ennis?” and Ennis adds, “del Mar.” After that point, Ennis refers to himself as Ennis del Mar. He says this to Cassie and Lureen. Cassie also says to Ennis, “I don’t get you Ennis del Mar” and OMT says, “Jack used to say …. Ennis del Mar ….” In some ways I see this as symbolizing Ennis as a lost soul (when we first meet him outside Aguirre’s trailer)  … a young boy who has experienced great loss and poverty in his life. A boy who has never experienced true love …. who sees himself as insignificant. When Jack asks him about his last name, he is on the road to self realization. He finds, in Jack, the strength to become himself. Food for thought! 

Nice thought. When Jack and Ennis first meet, Ennis is all but alone in the world. His family name means little to him, beacuse he hardly has any family left to fall back on. I like it how the memory of that first meeting is invoked when he meets Cassie. He introduces himself as Ennis, than hesitates for a beat, then adds Del Mar. During the brief silence in between you can almost hear Jack say "You folks just stop at Ennis"?

  I like the idea that Jack sort of prods Ennis to expose more of himself, by not letting Ennis get away with only saying his first name.  This brief introduction also immediately introduces the topic of parents with the use of the word "folks" (which obviously becomes extremely important in the story on many levels).

I think Jack taught Ennis an enormous amount about himself and love/intimacy throughout their relationship.    It's cute that Ennis seems to have learned his lesson about including his last name when making introductions following the encounter with Jack... as you note in the Cassie introduction.  I wonder about Ennis's final postcard to Jack (the one that is returned) because he signed it "Ennis Del Mar"  as if Jack would be confused about which Ennis might be writing to him.  But, maybe this had become an inside joke with them over the years.  Maybe when Ennis includes his last name in his introduction with Cassie, this is a clue to the audience that Ennis is thinking (as usual) about Jack. 

I love (and agree with) all these layers of meaning. It especially tickles me to think of Ennis and Jack having Ennis using his full name as inside joke - they must have had quite a few over the years (including "Look what I brought" about the beans in the bag).

On the other hand, taking a look at possible sadder interpretations-

First, given Ennis' misery while pushing that pie around, (if that stands for how he was feeling that whole summer/early fall), I wonder if he might have signed that card more formally anyway given the way they might have ended up parting at the lake.

And back to the begining - when Ennis gave just his first name, maybe that can also be seen as him trying to stand separate from what his father left him, not just "del Mar", but that "sea" of pain and homophobia Ennis would end up swimming (drowning?) in the rest of his life. Jack's prodding him to give his full name maybe can be heard as how Jack would, for the rest of Ennis' life, push Ennis (not necessarily overtly, but just by the fact of their relationship) to admit to who he was and what he ought to be dealing with.

[dly64]

On the topic of Jack and Ennis's self realization... I think this is really important.  If the moment that Aguirre tosses Ennis the watch in the trailer at the beginning is the start of the "timeline" or the "never enough time" dilemma in the movie, then Jack's first verbal introduction with Ennis must be important too.  I like the idea that Jack sort of prods Ennis to expose more of himself, by not letting Ennis get away with only saying his first name.  This brief introduction also immediately introduces the topic of parents with the use of the word "folks" (which obviously becomes extremely important in the story on many levels).

I had never thought about the symbolism of the clock … but it makes complete sense to me.

The more I watch this film and talk with all of you the more I notice. Amanda – you said:

I wonder about Ennis's final postcard to Jack (the one that is returned) because he signed it "Ennis Del Mar"  as if Jack would be confused about which Ennis might be writing to him.  But, maybe this had become an inside joke with them over the years.  Maybe when Ennis includes his last name in his introduction with Cassie, this is a clue to the audience that Ennis is thinking (as usual) about Jack.  I think all the men in the bar with black hats are also a clue to Jack being on Ennis's mind here.

I think the “del Mar” goes back to the time when they first met. Again, Ennis becomes more than a boy without a familial name. He has become “Ennis del Mar” … a man who has experienced love and pain and happiness and turmoil. Jack aided in Ennis’ own self discovery.

I was watching the film last night and thought of something else …. (if all of you have noticed this before, than I am sorry for the repetition). I have talked about, and so have many others, the “bookends” of the film. I found another last night. Two things I noticed. When Jack and Ennis first meet:
1.   Both Ennis and Jack are wearing those all important shirts.
2.   Ennis is holding a paper bag with his other shirt in it (not sure what else is in the bag, but definitely a second shirt).
These shirts have become a symbol of their entire relationship …. from the very beginning (when they first meet) until the end (after Jack dies). Again, as reflected in marital vows … “…. ‘till death us do part.”  After Ennis finds the bloody shirts, Jack’s mother places them in a paper bag. This time there are two shirts …. one is his and one is Jack’s. Ennis is no longer just “Ennis”. He has become one with the man he loves. Ennis will indelibly be intertwined with Jack … “the two shall become one” … and this is what happened to them.

[jpwagoneer1964]

We
On the topic of Jack and Ennis's self realization... I think this is really important.  If the moment that Aguirre tosses Ennis the watch in the trailer at the beginning is the start of the "timeline" or the "never enough time" dilemma in the movie, then Jack's first verbal introduction with Ennis must be important too.  I like the idea that Jack sort of prods Ennis to expose more of himself, by not letting Ennis get away with only saying his first name.  This brief introduction also immediately introduces the topic of parents with the use of the word "folks" (which obviously becomes extremely important in the story on many levels).

 

And remember the clock on Jack's dresser, stopped at a quarter to nine, hands together.

[dly64]

Very perceptive comments. I just have a question about the first one. I thought Ennis said "Xcuse me daughter" when he was being drug to the dance floor.

I’m fairly sure he says, “excuse me darlin’ ….” BTW – Cassie’s dragging off Ennis to the dance floor IMO, is Cassie’s way of giving Alma, Jr. the finger. Like, “I’ll show you. He loves me ….” However, ultimately, her attempts to keep Ennis have failed. Alma, Jr. was right from the get go …. Her “daddy” was not the marrying kind and Cassie was not “the one”.

On the other hand, taking a look at possible sadder interpretations-

First, given Ennis' misery while pushing that pie around, (if that stands for how he was feeling that whole summer/early fall), I wonder if he might have signed that card more formally anyway given the way they might have ended up parting at the lake.

Fern – your post overlapped with mine … so I wanted to just go back and reply to a few things you have said.

IMO, I don’t think Ennis signed the card intentionally to be more formal. Again, I think it goes back to the fact that he was no longer just a boy named “Ennis”. He became a man with a name and a history. What we don’t see is the card that Ennis sent Jack when he got the divorce. My guess is he signed that “Ennis del Mar” as well … but we’ll never know for sure.

And back to the beginning - when Ennis gave just his first name, maybe that can also be seen as him trying to stand separate from what his father left him, not just "del Mar", but that "sea" of pain and homophobia Ennis would end up swimming (drowning?) in the rest of his life. Jack's prodding him to give his full name maybe can be heard as how Jack would, for the rest of Ennis' life, push Ennis (not necessarily overtly, but just by the fact of their relationship) to admit to who he was and what he ought to be dealing with.

I never thought of that, but I think there is validity in what you are saying. There was a posting somewhere else that gave a definition of “del Mar”. Although I can’t remember it all … it is important to note that “mar” is defined as “to detract from the perfection or wholeness”. And, going back to the “dozy embrace” … for Jack, “nothing marred” the memory (even though Jack knew that Ennis “did not want to see or feel that it was Jack he held” … according to the book and screenplay … which is up for debate).

[dly64]

And remember the clock on Jack's dresser, stopped at a quarter to nine, hands together.

I completely missed the clock metaphors. Something else to watch for!

[Brown Eyes]

I’m fairly sure he says, “excuse me darlin’ ….” BTW – Cassie’s dragging off Ennis to the dance floor IMO, is Cassie’s way of giving Alma, Jr. the finger. Like, “I’ll show you. He loves me ….” However, ultimately, her attempts to keep Ennis have failed. Alma, Jr. was right from the get go …. Her “daddy” was not the marrying kind and Cassie was not “the one”.

Well, I just consulted the STS book and there's nothing in this version of the published screenplay to help with what Ennis says here.  In the published screenplay it looks like Ennis wasn't supposed to say anything to Alma Jr. as he heads to the dance floor with Cassie (it just says that he's supposed to look at Alma Jr.).  So, it seems that whatever Ennis says here was improvised maybe.  I've always heard "darlin" (but maybe it's because I've really been listening hard for the appearance of that word somewhere in the movie), but it seems possible that he says "daughter" (as Lee hears it).  Maybe I'll watch that scene tonight with the subtitles on (as if that really helps much).
 

[Ellemeno]

I?m fairly sure he says, ?excuse me darlin?

That's what I hear.

[dly64]

I checked the subtitles (and although that doesn't mean it is the end all ...) it says:

"Excuse me darlin' ..."