Author Topic: TOTW 08/09: What would you say to Jack?  (Read 12757 times)

Offline Penthesilea

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TOTW 08/09: What would you say to Jack?
« on: September 14, 2009, 03:16:47 am »
"You can't have Ennis without Jack." - Annie Proulx

Ergo, here is the matching part to our What would you say to Ennis? TOTW recently.

Thanks to Amanda (atz75) for the topic suggestion!

What would you say to Jack?

Just like the matching Ennis topic, you can choose whatever situation/stage of life you want.
Go on, and let him (us!) hear it :).





Offline gwyllion

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Re: TOTW 08/09: What would you say to Jack?
« Reply #1 on: September 14, 2009, 08:39:37 am »
Jack,

You are a smart dude, but you need to get your shit together.  I hate seeing you like this.  Stop running off to Randall and down to Mexico.  That ain't gonna fix what's eating at you.  You know that when Ennis isn't around, you miss him so much that you can hardly stand it.  You're killing yourself.  There's only one thing you can do.  Fortunately for you, the solution to all this hurt is totally within your reach. 

Move to Wyoming, Jack.  You know LD will give you the money to help you get started with a place to live and work.  You won't really miss Bobby and Lureen too much, besides, you can go visit Bobby whenever you want because you have those rights.  I don't think Lureen will make it too hard on you anyway.  And, there's always the telephone. 

You used to be ambitious and full of hope.  That was when I remember you at your happiest.  You can be that way again.  Find a job or set yourself up in a business that you can run.  You will be good at whatever you do because not only do you have the motivation and intelligence to succeed, but also there is a tangible reward for you at the end of the day.  It won't take 14 hours of driving to be with Ennis. 

Think about it.  You two can hang out together.  In just a short time, you might convince him to get divorced.  He'd still be close to his girls, so he wouldn't have that as an excuse.  Even if he works all the time, there would be nothing to prevent you two from going out for a beer once a week.  You can convince him that he will be happy with you.  You can make him forget about Rich and Earl.  In time, you might make him believe that there's nothing wrong with two guys living together.  But you need to make that move.  It's the only thing that will get the ball rolling.  I know you can do it!

XO
Donna

And for God's sake, read some fanfiction.  We have it all worked out for you two.
A companion where none had been expected...

Offline Marina

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Re: TOTW 08/09: What would you say to Jack?
« Reply #2 on: September 14, 2009, 09:24:52 am »
This is such a great question too, complimentary to the one about Ennis - I've thought a lot about this too.  After giving him a huge hug and kiss because I adore him so much, I'd tell him he's absolutely right in his feelings, it's very beautiful, the real thing is worth it, and to go for it - tell Ennis outright - what he and Ennis have is the real deal.  I know Ennis was so fearful and determined not to because he felt it wasn't safe, but you are a very brave soul, and it would be so worthwhile.  :)
« Last Edit: September 15, 2009, 12:21:39 am by marina del mar »
“Only within the moment of time represented by the present century has one species -- man -- acquired significant power to alter the nature of his world.”
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~Looking back on it, they both realized it was the best thing they ever had.~  - A Mother's Love

Offline Monika

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Re: TOTW 08/09: What would you say to Jack?
« Reply #3 on: September 14, 2009, 04:53:06 pm »
I love you, Jack. I love your ability to dream, how you wear your heart on your sleeve and the serious more darker side of you that we only get glimpses of.
I want to give you a big hug and comfort you.

and a couple of pieces of advice...

Leave Lureen. It´s not fair to her to stay in the marriage
Don´t give up on Ennis. He loves you.

Offline southendmd

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Re: TOTW 08/09: What would you say to Jack?
« Reply #4 on: September 14, 2009, 05:36:27 pm »
Ditch Ennis--I'll give you a sweet life!

(just kidding...)

Offline Jeff Wrangler

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Re: TOTW 08/09: What would you say to Jack?
« Reply #5 on: September 14, 2009, 05:37:03 pm »
"Hey, Cowboy. Come here often?"

 ;D
"It is required of every man that the spirit within him should walk abroad among his fellow-men, and travel far and wide."--Charles Dickens.

Offline Lumière

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Re: TOTW 08/09: What would you say to Jack?
« Reply #6 on: September 14, 2009, 07:08:52 pm »

I will have to come back and have a heart-to-heart with Jack a bit later, once I've gathered my thoughts...

...I had a fair idea of what to say before I came in here & got hypnotized by Paul's siggie.  ;)


Offline Brown Eyes

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Re: TOTW 08/09: What would you say to Jack?
« Reply #7 on: September 14, 2009, 09:27:56 pm »
I will have to come back and have a heart-to-heart with Jack a bit later, once I've gathered my thoughts...

...I had a fair idea of what to say before I came in here & got hypnotized by Paul's siggie.  ;)

Heya M!!  :-*  I agree with your sentiments here entirely.  First off, both you and Paul have the coolest of cool signatures... routinely! 

And, while I requested this topic and am thrilled to see it... I find it hard to compose an answer to the question.  I had a hard time with the Ennis topic too.  I'll have to think on this one a bit.

Aside from the hugs and encouragment that others here have suggested, one thing that comes to my mind as a piece of advice for Jack would be to think about his timing a little bit more.  Jack sometimes seems so sweet and optimistic that he maybe both overwhelms the more reticent Ennis and misreads the best time to make certain suggestions... maybe out of his own enthusiasm.  I've always thought that the cow and calf suggestion, while totally sweet, came way too quickly.  They'd just gotten back together and Ennis was clearly enjoying the reunion and was probably more relaxed than he had been in 4 years.  But, for Jack to propose moving in together seems too quick.   Sometimes I wonder if Jack's timing on certain things might have been different, things might have gone slightly differently.

I would also have talked to him explicitly about his role in leading the relationship along.  I think if he had a firmer idea that he had such an impact on Ennis... just through leading by example... that also might have made a big difference.  It's interesting that Jack's status of being a few steps ahead of Ennis most of the time... to Jack feels like being on a short leash.

It makes me wonder how far Jack could have gone without Ennis... imaginining a scenario where they never met to begin with... in terms of really embracing his sexuality, coming out, etc.


the world was asleep to our latent fuss - bowie

Offline Lumière

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Re: TOTW 08/09: What would you say to Jack?
« Reply #8 on: September 15, 2009, 03:01:07 pm »
Here's only part of what I feel I can say to Jack today..



Jack,


I think I understand why you stayed with Lureen even though you knew she was not the one you wanted to be with.  Perhaps you felt that marriage offered a security and a certain manner of life you had gotten used to over the years.  Perhaps you stayed for Bobby's sake.  Perhaps you weren't sure what you would do with yourself if you left Lureen and couldn't completely commit to a life with Ennis.  Perhaps you felt deep down that you would scare Ennis away if you took away the cover of your marriage which made your relationship appear 'innocent enough' in the eyes of the world.  Perhaps you stayed with her because you wanted Ennis himself to tell you to leave her... I am sure there are many reasons why things turned out the way they did.

You weaved a beautiful dream of a happy life together, and placed it at Ennis' feet.  But he did not know what to make of it or what to do with it, Jack.  You knew Ennis more than anyone else.  That much was clear. You saw how hard it was for him to acknowledge, let alone accept that "this thing" between you two was bigger than a couple of nights camping a few months a year.  He was never going to agree to leave his wife right after you'd just gotten back together after 4 years.  Just like he was not going to want to relocate to Texas after he confided in you that he was terrified of people "looking at him like they knew".  He just didn't see things the same way you saw them, as far as the future of your relationship was concerned.  I get your frustration and I commend you for not giving up.  I think towards the end, he was starting to realize the depth of what you two had, but by then, it was too late.

I wish you'd gotten the chance to fully live the life you dreamed for the pair of you.
I wish you'd felt free enough to be yourself, even though Ennis was reluctant to embrace it.
I understand why you decided to move on with someone else who was willing to be with you the way Ennis couldn't/wouldn't.
I often wonder if Ennis would've realized just how much he'd lost once you set up that cabin with another man. 
Maybe that would've been drastic enough to wake him up; we'll never know.

Even though your relationship with Ennis was far from ideal, I know that you did not love in vain.


Offline Monika

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Re: TOTW 08/09: What would you say to Jack?
« Reply #9 on: September 19, 2009, 07:38:52 am »
Think about it.  You two can hang out together.  In just a short time, you might convince him to get divorced.  He'd still be close to his girls, so he wouldn't have that as an excuse.  Even if he works all the time, there would be nothing to prevent you two from going out for a beer once a week.  You can convince him that he will be happy with you.  You can make him forget about Rich and Earl.  In time, you might make him believe that there's nothing wrong with two guys living together.  But you need to make that move.  It's the only thing that will get the ball rolling.  I know you can do it!

I just now watched their last argument followed by the dozy embrace scene and it struck me how much Ennis really belongs to Jack - body and soul. His whole life revolves around Jack and I really felt that if Jack only had just pushed him a little bit more, he would have surrendered. How could he not have?

So I agree, if Jack had perhaps moved to Wyoming and showed him he meant business....might have done the trick.


But then, another part of my brain says that it would have been impossible either way. I don´t know. I guess the conflict in my thinking is that "open space" between what I wish to happen and what I think is possible.

Offline Brown Eyes

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Re: TOTW 08/09: What would you say to Jack?
« Reply #10 on: September 19, 2009, 10:58:24 pm »
But then, another part of my brain says that it would have been impossible either way. I don´t know. I guess the conflict in my thinking is that "open space" between what I wish to happen and what I think is possible.

Hey Bud!  I think this is a really interesting point to think about.  I think you're right that what we, as Brokies, wish would have/ could have happened might be different from what was possible within the narrative universe of BBM.  Sometimes I think what I wish could have happened really does flavor my interpretations a lot.

the world was asleep to our latent fuss - bowie

Offline ifyoucantfixit

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Re: TOTW 08/09: What would you say to Jack?
« Reply #11 on: September 20, 2009, 03:29:46 am »



         Being a responsible adult, is what you have to do, in order to take care of those you love, and those
who love and care about you.  That includes everyone, from your mom to your wife and son, to Ennis.
You have to look at the whole picture.  You can never be responsible as long as you are leaving any of these
people out of the picture.
         You should be honest, in order to teach your son to be honest.  You can not make Ennis do what is right
except by leading.  He is too afraid to do it any other way.  You have to be honest and fair to your wife.  She should
have had the ability to seek and find a new husband.  She was a good enough woman to have had a wonderful
man that would have loved and cared for her the way she deserved.  You could never be happy much less, even
partially satisfied, with anyone like a Mexican Whore, (lack of understanding and connection)  plus poor Randall,
he didnt deserve to be treated by you, the way Ennis treated you.   You should have taken stock in what you
were really getting from Ennis.  Given him an ultimatum, and see if that might have woken him up to his reality.



     Beautiful mind

Offline Monika

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Re: TOTW 08/09: What would you say to Jack?
« Reply #12 on: September 20, 2009, 08:29:04 am »
Sometimes I think what I wish could have happened really does flavor my interpretations a lot.


Hi Amanda! Yes, the same goes for me. But I often think about what Annie Proulx has said as well - that Brokeback ultimately is a story about a homophobic society. With that in mind, I can't imagine a happy ending because it would have changed the essence of the story. Because of that I also find it very hard to offer Jack advice on what to do, because for the story to maintain its essence, its message, he has to possess the qualities he has. He has to commit the errors that he does. If he would suddenly have left his wife and moved to Wyoming (as I often wish he had), the story would change too much and I doubt it would have had the same emotional impact on us. It somehow comes back to the fact that even though I wish they could have found a way to live together, I also know, that if they had, it would have been a completely different movie.

Offline optom3

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Re: TOTW 08/09: What would you say to Jack?
« Reply #13 on: October 24, 2009, 07:05:53 pm »
I would say to Jack, Ennis loves you. That last night they spend together, Ennis wraps his arm round Jack even in sleep. To me that is love, he protects him and holds him close even while he is fast asleep and after 20 years have passed. He may not express it verbally, but that single scene demonstrates it, he is bound to Jack, deep in his subconscious. So there are no wild protestations of love, but I would trade all the words for that one single gesture which speaks volumes.
We cannot all throw off all the shackles that bind us so tight, convention, fear and so many more, but to hold to us that is dear while we are not even aware of it is the strongest indication of where our hearts lie.

Offline Marina

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Re: TOTW 08/09: What would you say to Jack?
« Reply #14 on: October 24, 2009, 08:06:44 pm »
I don't know, I think that Jack on some level did realize Ennis loved him, that's what made him stay with Ennis for so long, but I just don't think it was enough food for Jack's soul over the span of 20 years - so few gestures (although when Ennis made them, they were quite profound), Ennis' inertia and his keeping Jack at arm's length generally.  I would need more than a gesture while I'm asleep and unaware of it, and I think Jack needed more, some words, a stand taken, something.
“Only within the moment of time represented by the present century has one species -- man -- acquired significant power to alter the nature of his world.”
~Rachel Carson~

~Looking back on it, they both realized it was the best thing they ever had.~  - A Mother's Love

Offline BBM_victim

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Re: TOTW 08/09: What would you say to Jack?
« Reply #15 on: May 12, 2017, 01:31:17 am »
Hm... It's difficult with Jack because he is so heartbroken and in despair. I don't know, i would tell him "it's gonna be alright, Jack. someday all will be fine, someday you will be with Ennis... and Ennis' heart is forever yours."
 :'(

Offline CellarDweller

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Re: TOTW 08/09: What would you say to Jack?
« Reply #16 on: May 14, 2017, 09:43:20 pm »
Like what I said on the other thread,  I don't think there is much that one person could say to Jack, but for different reasons.

Jack was able to accept who he was, but he had fallen for a guy who couldn't and would string him along for years.  The optimist would tell him to never give up hope.  The pessimist would tell him to move on.  He attempted to do that with Randall, but in the end, the heart wants what  it wants, and his wanted Ennis.


Tell him when l come up to him and ask to play the record, l'm gonna say: ''Voulez-vous jouer ce disque?''
'Voulez-vous, will you kiss my dick?'
Will you play my record? One-track mind!