gay vikings- could it be true...

[milomorris]

Bill, it was Milo that answered honestly to my questions in another thread.... yet another thread..... regarding
gay's who were effiminate. 

For the record, I didn't use the word "inferior."

[milomorris]

I don't know how in the fucking hell you can say that effeminate gays aren't being declared inferior when effeminacy is being equated with a weakness.  And since the "orthodox" gay community is said to be "entrenched" in effeminacy, that would mean that most gay men, in these peoples' eyes, have some kind of weakness. 

I didn't create the effeminacy=weakness idea.

http://encarta.msn.com/encnet/features/dictionary/DictionaryResults.aspx?refid=1861607592

ef·fem·i·nate [ i fémmənət ]

adjective
Definition:
 
1. offensive term: an offensive term used to describe a man whose behavior, appearance, or speech is considered to be similar to that traditionally associated with women or girls

2. overrefined and lacking strength: weak through overrefinement or an absence of vigorous qualities (disapproving)


And there are many other dictionaries out there that use "weak" or "weakness" in their definitions.

[David In Indy]

I don't think there is anything wrong with being effeminate. I'm effeminate. I certainly don't throw a dress on and run up and down the streets singing show tunes, but I'm clearly not "butch" either. And I'm pretty damn proud of it. Because that is who I am.

I couldn't care less what those silly definitions say.

[milomorris]

I couldn't care less what those silly definitions say.

I just want to make sure that people here understand that I didn't make this stuff up.

[milomorris]

I believe that we all have traits that have been labeled masculine and feminine.  

Right. And as I have said before, it comes down to a matter of where a man's balance point is. Like it or not, society places boundaries on masculinity and femininity. Men and women who cross those boundaries cause friction.

I don’t really think that two people can get along with some kind of feminine energy at play.  And I certainly don’t think people can have sex without feminine energy coming into the equation.  When two men come together, then one of them has to give.  He has to take pleasure in giving pleasure.  He has to allow the other man to take him.  Of course both men can give of themselves at the same time, or they can switch off.  But at all times at least one of them has to be on his knees so to speak.  And I don’t think that this is weakness.  Giving is not weakness.  Yielding to someone else is not weakness if it’s something you want to do, and if it’s something you take pleasure in doing.  It’s a beautiful thing to want to do that for another human being.  Where would we be without this kind of desire?  What would we do without our feminine traits?

I'm not on board with this at all. A top is providing pleasure to the bottom at the same time that the bottom is providing pleasure to the top. Its a mutual exchange, IMO. Both partners take pleasure in providing pleasure. I don't understand how we can assign that dynamic to feminine energy. And this brings us right back around to the Vikings and other pre-Christian cultures. Because their understanding of sexuality was heteronormative, and because sex in those times was for the pleasure of the man (no understanding of female orgasm), they mistakenly assumed that the receptive male partner was doing all the giving, and the penetrating partner was doing all the taking.

[Clyde-B]

What is defined as "masculine" and "feminine" will depend on the males and females that make up the population you are making your generalizations about.

If you talk about the birds, food gathering and homemaking responsibilities are often shared.  If you talk about the bees, the women run the show and men are little more than lazy sperm donors.  If you talk about humans, it will depend on where in the world and what period of history you are looking at. 

That femininity is a weakness, seems to be a human male conceit.  I wouldn't torment a cub in front of a lioness.

[milomorris]

That femininity is a weakness, seems to be a human male conceit.  I wouldn't torment a cub in front of a lioness.

Not "femininity," Clyde, "effeminacy." The two words are different. See Merriam-Webster:

Main Entry: fem·i·nine
Function: adjective

1: female 1a(1)
2: characteristic of or appropriate or unique to women <feminine beauty> <a feminine perspective>

and


Main Entry: ef·fem·i·nate
Function: adjective

1 : having feminine qualities untypical of a man : not manly in appearance or manner
2 : marked by an unbecoming delicacy or overrefinement <effeminate art> <an effeminate civilization>


So you see, a woman is feminine. A man can be effeminate.

[Jeff Wrangler]

That femininity is a weakness, seems to be a human male conceit.  I wouldn't torment a cub in front of a lioness.

I wouldn't recommend getting between a sow bear and her cubs, either.

[Clyde-B]

Not "femininity," Clyde, "effeminacy." The two words are different. See Merriam-Webster:

Main Entry: fem·i·nine
Function: adjective

1: female 1a(1)
2: characteristic of or appropriate or unique to women <feminine beauty> <a feminine perspective>

and


Main Entry: ef·fem·i·nate
Function: adjective

1 : having feminine qualities untypical of a man : not manly in appearance or manner
2 : marked by an unbecoming delicacy or overrefinement <effeminate art> <an effeminate civilization>


So you see, a woman is feminine. A man can be effeminate.

Femininity regardless of whether it shows up in a man or a woman is considered by some to be a weakness.  Women have had to fight for rights as well.

And viewing feminine traits as a weakness is a conceit.

[delalluvia]

Femininity regardless of whether it shows up in a man or a woman is considered by some to be a weakness.  Women have had to fight for rights as well.

And viewing feminine traits as a weakness is a conceit.

Viewing that there are some traits specific to one sex is a conceit as well. 

Women are nurturing?  Well, so are men.
Men are brave?  Well, so are women.
Women want families?  Well, so do men.
Men are strong?  Well, so are women.