Author Topic: What would you like Ang to comment on?  (Read 22422 times)

Offline Penthesilea

  • Town Administration
  • The BetterMost 10,000 Post Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 14,745
Re: What would you like Ang to comment on?
« Reply #20 on: September 01, 2006, 05:01:58 pm »
Who said "sorry" and/or "s'alright" in the tent scene, and whether or not Ennis said "I love you" in the closet scene!

 :laugh:

Really, those are among the things I'm most avidly curious about.

Also, it would be nice to hear him discuss what went into creating all the symbolism and metaphors and ingenious structural forms that we often try to analyze here: the buckets, signs, clothing colors, numbers, fans, mirrored scenes, echoed gestures and so on. Personally, I believe most of them are very deliberate and carefully planned (some of them, of course, were planned by Annie and are in the original story, but many exist only in the film). One of the most fascinating things about the movie for me is how thorough and complex and subtle these are.

What I'm not particularly interested in is Ang's analysis of the characters' inner lives or motivations: at what point Ennis recognized he was in love, why Jack stuck it out for 20 years, why Alma didn't tell Ennis what she saw, etc. I'd rather he left that for us to decide. Interpreting a work of art is a collaboration involving both creator and audience, and with a movie there are lots of creators. We tend to give the creators absolute authority, even if they don't agree among themselves. So I don't think anyone -- even Ang! even Diana and Larry!  even Heath or Jake! even Annie!-- has the last word.


Gee! Katherine again you beat me with writing down my thoughts, lol.

I would LOVE to know about the sorrys and allrigths in TS2.

I'd like to have explained the symbolism, too. I'm always happy to read/hear snippets of interviews with Ang Lee, in which he affirms things we have discussed either here or on TOB. A well-known and more obvious example is the wind.
I too think Ang Lee put meticulous efforts into the tiniest details. I'd like to have more of them explained (which, when and WHY). Would be interesting to have confirmed or proven wrong our thoughts.

And I also agree that I'm not very interested in Lee explaining the characters inner motivations. At least for most scenes.
First for the reason Katherine mentioned: the interaction between a piece of art and it's audience.
And second because I think it would be quite superficial. Not because Ang Lee doesn't have a very good insight in the characters (granted that he has, self-evident) - but I think these aspects would be held superficial (by producers or whoever descides) in order to appeal a widespread audience. Would be made kind of idiot-proof and therefore dissapointing for us. (Does that sound snotnosed? Hope not. But given that the average moviegoer/DVD customer does not busy himself with a movie for months, it's not to be dismissed)

I would love to know why the "Tell you what" scene was altered from the 2003 script. Why did they cut out Ennis's response "I know the feeling"? I really miss it there and think it would have fit. It's not too forward. It would be in character for Ennis. I think they should have left it in the movie, as the movie's equivalent to Ennis's reaction in the story. For me, TS3 doesn't make up for it too.


I'd be also interested in the camera work. There are some scenes in which the camera work is very noticeable. Normally I don't even notice it, don't ponder about it (I'm no movie-buff). But there are some scenes, in which the camera angles or the movement of the camera is somehow different, demonstrative. I can't describe it, but I noticed it. Examples are the flashback and the lake scene for me. Aguirre seeing the happy tussle is another example, but this one is easy to explain and understand.

Offline welliwont

  • BetterMost Supporter!
  • Brokeback Got Me Good
  • *****
  • Posts: 806
Re: What would you like Ang to comment on?
« Reply #21 on: September 01, 2006, 05:16:52 pm »
That helps, but ... it doesn't quite make it all up.

* Sigh. * Never enough sex, never enou -- TIME. TIME. I mean, never enough TIME.

Why Katherine, all ya gotta do is read fanfic!!  sheesh!!   ;D  I got me a list, if ya want it...

J
Then the clouds opened up and God said, "I hate you, Alfafa."

Offline Mikaela

  • BetterMost 1000+ Posts Club
  • ******
  • Posts: 3,229
  • Unsaid... and now unsayable
Re: What would you like Ang to comment on?
« Reply #22 on: September 01, 2006, 06:31:45 pm »
I'd like to hear more comments on the symbolism too. Especially the yin/yang aspects, I think.

Also I'd be interested in comments about the few scenes I don't think work that well - to hear why they're included and why AL think they work (since he kept them). For instance the "pissant" scene.

And naturally like the rest of you I'd like to hear why the later part of the relationship deliberately is portrayed with so few visible signs of affection; caresses, hugs, kisses and/or sex. I don't think that explanation will come as a surprise or be entirely contrary to what we believe is the reason for that filming and editing choice, - but still I'd like to hear Ang Lee himself discuss it.

Any comments he'd care to give on aspects of the incredible chemistry between the lead actors/main characters would also be very welcome, as that *never* ceases to amaze me and I like to have it praised or discussed or at least acknowledged.....

Oh, and comments on the much-discussed timeline conondrums, and the few quite endearing film goofs would be great - could make for a lighter tone inbetween int he commentary. For instance if he happened to explain at which point they realized that the way the scenes were filmed and edited, Bobby Twist really couldn't be 8 months at the time of the reunion and still be Jack's son....

Offline nakymaton

  • BetterMost 1000+ Posts Club
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,045
  • aka Mel
Re: What would you like Ang to comment on?
« Reply #23 on: September 01, 2006, 06:43:58 pm »
You know, in reading this, I just realized...

I don't want a DVD with commentary.

I actually don't want to know any of those things. I don't want to hear Ang Lee talk about symbolism. I don't want to know who says what in TS2.

Stories about what it was like to film various scenes, yes. But interpretation? No. I don't want to hear any of it. (And if it turns out it's there, I won't buy the DVD, and I'll avoid discussion boards. Seriously. I don't want to know.)
Watch out. That poster has a low startle point.

Offline Mikaela

  • BetterMost 1000+ Posts Club
  • ******
  • Posts: 3,229
  • Unsaid... and now unsayable
Re: What would you like Ang to comment on?
« Reply #24 on: September 01, 2006, 07:10:17 pm »
Well, it doesn't look like we're in any imminent danger of losing you since there's been no confirmation there'll be a DVD with any sort of commentary or additional bonus material, - no little news snippet of any kind that one is in the works........ I wonder if it'll ever happen.

Personally I do hope it'll be forthcoming at some not too distant point, though.  But if I'd have to choose between an Ang Lee commentary track and a Heath/Jake one, I'm afraid Ang Lee would lose out by miles!   


Offline j.U.d.E.

  • BetterMost 1000+ Posts Club
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,747
Re: What would you like Ang to comment on?
« Reply #25 on: September 01, 2006, 07:34:54 pm »
I would like to ask Ang if he feels he might have left things a little to ambiguous...  Perhaps if he feels he was a little too reserved in certain scenes?  Or does he still view the movie as perfect or his "vision"? 

I guess the real question I want to know is, is there any scene(s) he would like to go back and re-do, remove, or insert new?  :D  In retrospect, what might he have done differently?
Didn't I read or saw an interview with him somewhere, where he says he would have done some scenes differently, in hindsight? But I may be wrong.

As to whether he has left things a little too ambiguous (different in some parts with the book), I don't know.. If yes, then possibly on purpose. I don't know Ang Lee, I've never met him (only from afar) or talked to him, but he strikes me as being a very 'interior person, keeping a lot of stuff 'hidden' or inside. It's probably part of his culture and upbringing, but since he seems to be the most American/British Taiwanese there is, I think he mixes both, his cultural backgrounds well. Actually, I’m not quite sure where I want to go with this.. What I want to say is, that I think the more ambiguous, the better.. When I read your post Eric, I thought 'yes', right away – far too ambiguous - especially with the ‘I swear’ scene, which true meaning is and will be for a long time ferociously discussed. But then reading on, I though, wait.. 'no'.. not too ambiguous. And 'no' I don't want to know all these things. Don't tell us what Ennis means with 'Jack, I swear'. This ambiguity makes it a much stronger film (I'm not saying the book isn't!), than had he 'revealed' more. I keep guessing things and wondering about things, but do I really want a straight (no pun intended!) answer. Do we? I'm not sure about it anymore. I will keep asking questions, wanting to know, to understand, needing explanations, but then again, I'm quite happy and very well prepared never to have an answer to some of my questions. I mean, one reason being that otherwise this board (and others) would lose their fascination and possibly their reason to exist..

Don't know if my rambling is clear.. but while I was writing, I realized, that I want to be "kept in the dark" about some things, even if it's nagging me and even if I'm desperate to know..

Ok, that's not much clearer..  :-\ I’ll shut up now ;D

j. U. d. E.
MLK - - - - - - - - - - - - HAL - - - - - - - - - - - - BHO
*15 jan 1929 - †04 apr 1968 | *04 apr 1979 - † 22 jan 2008 | *04 aug 1961 -

Offline serious crayons

  • Moderator
  • The BetterMost 10,000 Post Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 22,758
Re: What would you like Ang to comment on?
« Reply #26 on: September 02, 2006, 12:36:27 am »
I don't want to hear any of it. (And if it turns out it's there, I won't buy the DVD, and I'll avoid discussion boards. Seriously. I don't want to know.)

Mel, you can probably go ahead and buy the DVD. I don't own the one that's out now, but I've rented it a few times. Yet I have never watched any of the commentary. None of it. I have a different reason: I can't stand to see any BBM star in "real life." I don't want to hear Heath speaking in an Australian accent and wearing sunglasses, don't want to see Jake looking like a self-assured 21st-century movie star. I wouldn't mind seeing Ang, I guess, but I haven't been curious enough to watch even him because I fear that, as Chrissi says, the level of discussion would be too superficial.

Discussions here might be a problem, though. If you like, we could label all the DVD-commentary threads accordingly, the way posters on imdb warn of SPOILERS.

Offline jpwagoneer1964

  • BetterMost 1000+ Posts Club
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,720
  • Me and my 1951 DeSoto Suburban
Re: What would you like Ang to comment on?
« Reply #27 on: September 02, 2006, 01:46:40 am »
Mel, you can probably go ahead and buy the DVD. I don't own the one that's out now, but I've rented it a few times. Yet I have never watched any of the commentary. None of it. I have a different reason: I can't stand to see any BBM star in "real life." I don't want to hear Heath speaking in an Australian accent and wearing sunglasses, don't want to see Jake looking like a self-assured 21st-century movie star. I wouldn't mind seeing Ang, I guess, but I haven't been curious enough to watch even him because I fear that, as Chrissi says, the level of discussion would be too superficial.

Discussions here might be a problem, though. If you like, we could label all the DVD-commentary threads accordingly, the way posters on imdb warn of SPOILERS.

I have the DVD but have ony seen the interview a couple of times. While Jake and Heath seen like very nice guys I will always think if them as Jack and Ennis.
Thank you Heath and Jake for showing us Ennis and Jack,  teaching us how much they loved one another.

Offline Mikaela

  • BetterMost 1000+ Posts Club
  • ******
  • Posts: 3,229
  • Unsaid... and now unsayable
Re: What would you like Ang to comment on?
« Reply #28 on: September 02, 2006, 09:21:32 am »
Funny (or charming) how different we are in this! I love hearing Heath talking in his native tongue, wearing sunglasses and all.

And I'd like commentaries, because I don't take the director's or the actors' statements about their views and interpretations as gospel or the ultimate final immutable say on anything. They can shed lots of new light on topics, they can provide additional insights, they can explain how they themselves thought at the time - obviously given how they've immersed themselves in the story, the characters, their motivation, the meaning - but at the end of the day the film means what it means to me. Ennis and Jack and their story have a meaning that's uniquely mine - just as there's one that's uniquely Ang Lee's. It's not processed till I've interpreted it myself, - I think a lot of what comes across in the film was not even in all respects intentional, or at least came together in ways that worked better or on more levels than the filmmakers could consciously have envisaged.   

I think from the interviews I've seen that both Ang Lee and the actors are aware of this and entirely respectful of their audience's views and interpretations - never wanting to come across as if they have the one true answer to what anything means or what any character feels. They hardly could, after having striven so hard to make ambiguity the name of the BBM game. I remember one Jake interview during Oscar season where he seemed to have seen the film in somewhat of a new light himself after having read a review that got much attention on the discussion boards as well.

So I would love to listen to commentary tracks - in all honesty, Jake and Heath could read the New York telephone directory in their normal voices and dialects and I'd be majorly pleased. I like both their voices so much.  (Why isn't there a blushing icon available when you need it?  ;) ) Just hearing them all reminiscing about the shooting etc. would be great.  :)


The one thing I do not want to see,  is an extended version of the film. I'd love to see each and every outtake and scene cut for time, but not inserted into the film. No way. The film is perfect as it is. Tinkering with it to insert hippies, or an additional Ennis-vision of Jack's death or any other scene we know was actually filmed might ruin it for me. The flow of the thinkg, the emotions, the characters...... one little scene might change too much. So while I'm ready to campaign for a DVD with each and every deleted scene as a bonus feature on the side, and I wouldn't say no to seeing every single first night and second night and reunion takes while I'm dreaming - I'm saying: Please Focus - don't give us no extended film! Don't change what's perfect already!
« Last Edit: September 02, 2006, 09:24:12 am by Mikaela »

Offline Front-Ranger

  • BetterMost Moderator
  • The BetterMost 10,000 Post Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 30,326
  • Brokeback got us good.
Re: What would you like Ang to comment on?
« Reply #29 on: September 02, 2006, 10:03:31 am »
I agree with you about the extended version, Mik. But, do you think we're ever going to get any kind of special edition? It seems like all of the players have gone on to other things and "forgotton" our beautiful film.  :( 'Xept for us devoted Brokies, who carry the torch. (My husband asks me exasperatedly, when will I be done with this? But I reply that at least it's a cheap obsession.)

But what I would like Ang to talk about is the "ink blot" or "bookends" structure of the film, was it intentional, and  has this been done on other of his films or those of his mentors? Or was he thinking more in terms of showing dualities? I know that he has commented before on building a yin/yang structure into his films. I was reading about this on the "A Ninth Viewing Observation" Thread, which is an awesome thread, for any of you who have missed it.
"chewing gum and duct tape"