getting hit hard by offhand revelations (story discussion)

[injest]

social service pays for poor people...can't believe they could afford condoms but not a trip to the clinic. especially with young kids...you are in there all the time any way...

[injest]

Jess, maybe I'm misunderstanding your point. But to the extent I think Ennis is a sad figure, it has nothing to do with him being poor or having a spartan lifestyle. In fact, one of many things I love about BBM is that we AREN'T asked to feel sorry for people because they're uneducated or poor. In most movies, characters' economic status is central to our understanding of them, and if a character starts out poor, their path to achieving economic success constitutes at least part of the plot. Wealth = happy ending. BBM is refreshing because it DOESN'T do that.

No, I think Ennis is a sad figure because his own internal conflicts keep him from grabbing his one chance at happiness. Even when Jack is alive, Ennis can't fully enjoy the relationship because of his guilt and shame, and in the end he's left alone, grieving, knowing he blew it.

Yes. But it's kind of a glass half full/half empty situation, right? Of course, he was lucky to have what he did with Jack (half full). But they didn't get to live happily ever after together (half empty).

but Katherine...if he had woken up on fresh linen sheets in his own ranch house...ate a good stout breakfast cooked by the maid...you wouldn't be so tore up about him being 'alone'

[Noviani]

Hi All,

i am jumping in.

i guess Ennis' econimic state is like salt rubbed continuously to an open wound. i talked my 2 best buddies to watch the movies and one of them said in the end of the movie..trailer scene, "ooh.. how lonely"

living in a community where family is ALWAYS together, with large Balinese compounds, we can only imagine how it feels for Ennis having lost his other half and ends up downsizing his world to a trailer in a remote area.

[serious crayons]

but Katherine...if he had woken up on fresh linen sheets in his own ranch house...ate a good stout breakfast cooked by the maid...you wouldn't be so tore up about him being 'alone'

No, I'd still be pretty torn up about it. Material possessions are nice: they make life more comfortable, they give you one less thing to worry about. But they don't erase heartbreak.

Besides, Ennis isn't living lavishly, but he doesn't seem to be suffering intensely from his poverty. I mean if he were living in a cardboard box and scrounging for food in dumpsters, that would be different. But he seems to have enough to satisfy his own personal material desires, modest though they are.

i guess Ennis' econimic state is like salt rubbed continuously to an open wound. i talked my 2 best buddies to watch the movies and one of them said in the end of the movie..trailer scene, "ooh.. how lonely"

living in a community where family is ALWAYS together, with large Balinese compounds, we can only imagine how it feels for Ennis having lost his other half and ends up downsizing his world to a trailer in a remote area.

True. But it sounds like you're talking about feeling sorry for Ennis mainly because he's lonely and isolated, not because he's poor.

[Jeff Wrangler]

social service pays for poor people...can't believe they could afford condoms but not a trip to the clinic. especially with young kids...you are in there all the time any way...

As a matter of fact, the story does say that when Francine ("the second girl") was born, "Alma wanted to stay in town near the clinic because the child had an asthmatic wheeze."

So I presume they were getting what health care they had from the clinic, and I wonder if it was a free clinic? Would a free charity clinic in that time and place dispense prescription-medicine birth control pills? I've never had to pay for birth control pills  , but I bet condoms are a lot cheaper.

Q: What's going on with the story chronology here? We are told that when the Hi-Top, the ranch where Ennis was working, "folded," they moved to the apartment over the laundry in Riverton. Then we are told that they had the second daughter, and Alma wanted to stay in town near the clinic because the baby had asthma. Then we get Alma whining about "no more damn lonesome ranches," and, "Let's get a place here in town?" Then we are told they stayed in the apartment because Ennis wanted it that way.

So is Alma's whining here a "flashback" to before they moved to the apartment, or does this take place in the apartment, and maybe she's talking about getting a house, or something?

[Front-Ranger]

Yes, Jeff, I think maybe she's talking about getting a house in town and envisions Ennis working in town, say at the power company. He hates working on the highway crew, and wants to get another job at a ranch, which would require them to move. So, apparently they compromise, staying at the rental apartment instead of leasing a house.

Okay, I was single at that time in the story, and, yup, you could get birth control pills at the clinic for a nominal fee, say $5 a month.

[Jeff Wrangler]

Yes, Jeff, I think maybe she's talking about getting a house in town and envisions Ennis working in town, say at the power company. He hates working on the highway crew, and wants to get another job at a ranch, which would require them to move. So, apparently they compromise, staying at the rental apartment instead of leasing a house.

That makes sense. I can see that. (Interesting, then, that in the film, it's Alma's whining here that gets them to move to town.)

Okay, I was single at that time in the story, and, yup, you could get birth control pills at the clinic for a nominal fee, say $5 a month.

Thanks for the "history lesson." I stand advised! Like I said--not something I've ever had personal experience of! And it does make you wonder why Alma wasn't more proactive about this.

[mlewisusc]

ok we don't know that they stopped having sex totally after that one scene...(from the movie)...and I know if I told my husband in the middle of proceedings to slap on a condom after x number of years?? He would be very very unhappy...the time for THAT discussion was NOT at that moment. Alma was looking for an excuse to NOT have sex...(anyone remember when the pill came out? Why wasn't Alma on it if she was so concerned?)

I noticed from reading the story Saturday that the story (as opposed to the film) is unclear on when and where Ennis and Alma had this discussion - it does not appear certain that it took place in the heat of passion.

Later, when the story lists Alma's issues with their marriage, the narrator mentions Ennis's ". . . propensity to roll to the wall and sleep as soon as he hit the bed . . ." which does not say their sex life stopped completely.  I'm not sure that the story text supports the notion that Alma was looking for an excuse to not have sex, but earlier on we did hear that she hated the "inverse penetration" that Ennis seemed to most enjoy, so I can't say definitively that Story Alma wasn't looking for an excuse to stop their sex life.  It does not appear that she was using it as a weapon against him, from a withholding standpoint, at least.  The list of issues against Ennis stated in the story seems to be more a lack of action towards supporting and participating in the marriage, as opposed to actual actions against the marriage (except, of course, for the glaring example of the adulterous conduct going on with Jack!). 

[Penthesilea]

Lately another sentece in the short story hit me (motel scene):

"I didn't know where the hell you was," said Ennis. "Four years. I about give up on you. I figured you was sore about that punch."

Ennis was about to give up on Jack. In the reverse, it means, that he has not given up on him (yet). He always hoped during these four years to see Jack again, always waited.

Another offhand revelation for the reader.
And quite a revelation for Ennis, even when storyEnnis is more vocal than movieEnnis.

The first quoted sentence with its emphasis leads me to another question/speculation: did storyEnnis try (even half-heartedly) to find Jack? Maybe asking around a little, in a casual, alongside manner, among travelling ranch hands/the rodeo curcuit (when an oppurtunity provided)?

[Meryl]

Lately another sentece in the short story hit me (motel scene):

"I didn't know where the hell you was," said Ennis. "Four years. I about give up on you. I figured you was sore about that punch."

Ennis was about to give up on Jack. In the reverse, it means, that he has not given up on him (yet). He always hoped during these four years to see Jack again, always waited.

Another offhand revelation for the reader.
And quite a revelation for Ennis, even when storyEnnis is more vocal than movieEnnis.

The first quoted sentence with its emphasis leads me to another question/speculation: did storyEnnis try (even half-heartedly) to find Jack? Maybe asking around a little, in a casual, alongside manner, among travelling ranch hands/the rodeo curcuit (when an oppurtunity provided)?

Good question, Chrissi.  He seems to have expected Jack to be the one to make contact, apparently figuring that Jack would know he was in Riverton, though I'm not sure from the story or film why Jack would know that.

Story Ennis had a perfectly good source of information about Jack, namely that he knew Jack's parents lived in Lightning Flat.  If he'd really wanted to find him, he could have asked them to tell Jack to get in touch.

The most interesting thing about that quote is that it proves story Ennis never meant to completely cut off his relationship with Jack.  In the film it seems that Ennis discourages any further contact by how he acts at their goodbye in Signal.  At the motel, he simply states that he didn't think he'd hear from Jack, figuring he was sore about that punch.  It's a subtle change, but it's another important thing to add to the list of differences between the two Ennises.