Author Topic: Things that aren't directly connected to BBM and yet are somehow Brokieish  (Read 70077 times)

Offline serious crayons

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What's the true story? It will never be found in statistics.

With all due respect to BBM, it won't be found in a fictional story/movie, either.

(And BTW ruthlessly unsentimental, aka Clancypants, one of the greatest Brokieologists I've known, made an argument in favor of Jack's accidental death that forever convinced me. He said that the narrative makes more logical sense if Jack died accidentally, if the murder was all in Ennis' head -- aren't the murderes that flash through his mind even carrying a tire iron? -- which makes it a story of Ennis' and Jack's lives being ruined by Ennis' internalized homophobia and fear instilled by the Earl and Rich tragedy. That said, I think I've seen quotes from the filmmakers indicating they were more on the fence about it.)

And at the risk of being even more argumentative than I already have been  :) if there were a "true" story of Jack's death it indeed probably would be found in statistics, because his death would either be recorded as accidental tire explosion or murder. Unless of course the cops were in on the coverup. I think even then they'd probably just say it was an unsolved murder, since it would be clear from the body which thing happened.

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Funny, I had seen some statistics when I was researching gun violence that Wyoming is a hotbed for it. Don't know if I'll be able to dig that up again.

Well, if you find them again, let me know. My google search was hasty. I know Wikipedia isn't the ultimate source on anything, and those stats are seven years old, but I'd be surprised if they're that far off.

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I myself have traveled quite a bit in Wyoming, especially the rural areas. One of the reasons I've gotten to see so much of the state is because my very presence added a measure of safety and "respectability" to my traveling buddy and allowed us to safely pass by.

Well, again, though, since those eight murders a year probably involve drug deals and familial killings and so forth, I'd say that statistically speaking even your traveling buddy is probably fairly safe. But I don't blame him for being cautious.  :-\


Statistics never tell the entire story. I'm sure Philadelphia is responsible for most of that statistic, but, on the other hand, most of the shootings here are similar to what you described in New Orleans. They're also mostly young-black-male on young-black-male gun violence, and it's not uncommon that drugs are involved in some way (e.g., sales turf), or somebody coming on to somebody else's girlfriend, or somebody "disrespecting" somebody or somebody's girlfriend--or teens or, worse, young children who get shot by stray bullets. In any case, this sort of thing doesn't happen in the areas of the city I frequent. Of course, that doesn't mean they never will, only that they haven't.

Well, New Orleans has probably changed somewhat post Katrina. But when I lived there the murders often did occur in the parts of the city I frequented. New Orleans, sometimes called a "checkboard," does not have the drastic housing segregation common in Northern cities, and poor neighborhoods abut rich ones. So although, yes, the perpetrators were usually black, the victims were often white. Murders happened all over the place -- I mean, probably more so in housing projects, but otherwise fairly geographically distributed. Not that that should be a part of the argument, since of course Black Lives Matter.

I was joking when I said you and Chuck were doomed, but I did want to point out that your states are more dangerous than Wyoming, presumably because you have bigger cities and more poverty.

When we moved for a year from NOLA to NYC, it at first seemed like you'd be more likely to get murdered in NYC because the papers were full of murder stories. Took me a while to realize that those murders were quite geographically concentrated and the chances of getting murdered in, say, Midtown Manhattan were pretty slim.

In NOLA, on the other hand, my then-husband got mugged, presumably at gunpoint (the mugger pointed something at him, hidden in a sleeve) on an upper-middle-class street at 7 p.m., sun still up, while carrying our 1-year-old in a backpack. A fair share of murders stemmed from muggings.

But vis-a-vis Easy Rider, I'd bet any amount of money that none of the NOLA killings involved rednecks randomly picking off hippies. Even in the rural South, I never heard of that happening while I was there.

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I think, Katharine, that as a woman, you'd be far more likely to be raped and strangled in my part of town than I would be to be shot.

Thanks for conjuring that lovely image, Jeff!   ::)  Though from what I gathered about your part of town, many residents wouldn't have a lot of interest in raping women.

I'm extraordinarily lucky to live in a part of town that's almost entirely free of violence (knock on wood). There are car and garage break-ins, and packages stolen off porches, but in years on years the only violence I've heard of was when a construction worker showed up early at the site of the house being built and found some kids inside -- they robbed him and pushed him down the stairs.

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I'm not sure what FRiend Lee might mean by "a ritual of safe passage," but once when I was traveling through Wyoming with OCD, he told me that expected behavior is to raise one hand, maybe touch the brim of your cowboy hat, when you pass another driver on a secondary or back road. I'd just think of that as "Wyoming good manners," rather than as a "ritual of safe passage." But maybe she's referring to something with which I'm not familiar.

Yes, I think that's widespread in rural Middle-America. Some people just raise one finger as greeting. A friend of mine who grew up in South Dakota made mention on Facebook of drivers giving each other the "one-finger signal" and at first I took her to mean something entirely different and far more common in the city.  :laugh:



Offline Jeff Wrangler

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Thanks for conjuring that lovely image, Jeff!   ::) 

I figured it was fair trade for being told I was doomed.  ;D

Unfortunately, that sort of crime really is more common than gun crimes in my part of town--which is not to say they're common, just more common than gun crimes.

The neighborhood crime reports do show break-ins and cell phone thefts in broad daylight.
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Offline Front-Ranger

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Okay, here are a couple of sources for the years 2013 and 2015:

Wyoming is #6 on the list of the top 20 states for gun violence: Death by firearm per 100,000 population: 16.7 http://www.cbsnews.com/pictures/death-by-gun-top-20-states-with-highest-rates/15/

For 2015, Wyoming was rated #4 in the nation for homicides by the CDC: https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/pressroom/states/wyoming/wyoming.htm
May 2019 be better for us all.

Offline serious crayons

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Okay, here are a couple of sources for the years 2013 and 2015:

Wyoming is #6 on the list of the top 20 states for gun violence: Death by firearm per 100,000 population: 16.7 http://www.cbsnews.com/pictures/death-by-gun-top-20-states-with-highest-rates/15/

For 2015, Wyoming was rated #4 in the nation for homicides by the CDC: https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/pressroom/states/wyoming/wyoming.htm


It looks like my Wikipedia statistics from 2010 were correct, or close to it, according to Uniform Crime Reporting Statistics, which lets you look up both numbers and rates by state (but it's cumbersome, because you have to do them one at a time). They vary a bit from year to year, and for some reason 2010 was a particularly peaceful year for Wyoming (8 murders was correct, according to UCRS). The table only goes through 2014, so I wondered if 2015 murders shot up or what.

https://www.ucrdatatool.gov/Search/Crime/State/RunCrimeStatebyState.cfm

Sure enough, by 2015 Wyoming murders had tripled -- to 24. According to the CDC's 2015 National Center for Health Statistics link that you provided, Wyoming is the not 4th highest state for homicides (although it's 4th highest for suicide, and 3rd highest for accidents and liver disease -- all of which seem telling). The number 4.4 is its homicide rate, not ranking. The homicide rate for the U.S. as a whole is 5.1. For some reason, the page offers rankings for disease but not for homicide.

On another page of that same CDC site, Wyoming is shown to have one of the lowest homicide rates (along with ID, UT, MN, IA and New England). Check out the map and the figures below (you get it by clicking homicide on the other page).

This page says Wyoming's homicide rate as 0.0, tying Vermont for the lowest in the country (MN 2.8, CO 3.7). The zero, I gather, doesn't mean there were no homicides, just that the homicide rate (homicides per 100,000) is so low that, even with Wyoming's small population, the rate would have to go more digits to the right of the 0 (for example, maybe .02) to state the number per 100K.

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/pressroom/sosmap/homicide_mortality/homicide.htm

Why the same site says 4.4 on one page and 0.0 on the other, I have no idea. My math is not the best, and maybe I'm misinterpreting the data. In any case, it appears to me that Wyoming's murder rate is close to Minnesota's and a bit lower than Colorado's.

As for the information on the CBS News page, I'm afraid that looks like alternative facts. Either that, or they're being slippery -- maybe the rate of death by gun violence is proportionately higher in WY compared to death by other causes, even though the overall murder rate is extremely low? I don't know, and my brain is getting too weary of statistics to figure it out. But I trust the sources that end in .gov the most, and it looks to me like this CBS feature is misleading at best.

Jeff and Chuck, I'm afraid you're still doomed. But Jeff, note that I'm using a deliberately vague and hyperbolic adjective rather than painting a gruesome picture of exactly how you'll be offed.  ;D

At least we can all be thankful we don't live in Alabama or Maryland, in which case we might as well start drawing up our wills and giving away our possessions.



 

Offline Jeff Wrangler

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Jeff and Chuck, I'm afraid you're still doomed. But Jeff, note that I'm using a deliberately vague and hyperbolic adjective rather than painting a gruesome picture of exactly how you'll be offed.  ;D

Well, I felt the context implied we were going to be shot.

Gruesome or not, as a woman in my part of town, you are more likely to be raped and strangled than you are to be shot.
"It is required of every man that the spirit within him should walk abroad among his fellow-men, and travel far and wide."--Charles Dickens.

Offline serious crayons

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Well, I felt the context implied we were going to be shot.

Gruesome or not, as a woman in my part of town, you are more likely to be raped and strangled than you are to be shot.

Good to know! I'll skip the bulletproof vest when I come to visit you.

I think what you're saying is probably true in all parts of all towns. I'm not going to look up any more statistics today, but that's the sense I get from news reports and whatnot. Women get shot in mass shootings, or when men go berserk and kill their entire families, but you don't hear of many women shot on the street by strangers (unless as bystanders or, occasionally, in muggings). But they get raped and strangled (or stabbed) by strangers as well as by their spouses and boyfriends.





« Last Edit: March 22, 2017, 09:00:42 am by serious crayons »

Offline Jeff Wrangler

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Good to know! I'll skip the bulletproof vest when I come to visit you.

Just make sure your martial arts training is up to date.  ;D

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I think what you're saying is probably true in all parts of all towns. I'm not going to look up any more statistics today, but that's the sense I get from news reports and whatnot. Women get shot in mass shootings, or when men go berserk and kill their entire families, but you don't hear of many women shot on the street by strangers (unless as bystanders or, occasionally, in muggings). But they get raped and strangled (or stabbed) by strangers as well as by their spouses and boyfriends.

And then there are also the women--and children--who are just sitting in their living rooms and get shot by stray bullets.  :(
"It is required of every man that the spirit within him should walk abroad among his fellow-men, and travel far and wide."--Charles Dickens.

Offline CellarDweller

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my the topic has taken  a serious turn!


Tell him when l come up to him and ask to play the record, l'm gonna say: ''Voulez-vous jouer ce disque?''
'Voulez-vous, will you kiss my dick?'
Will you play my record? One-track mind!

Offline serious crayons

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my the topic has taken  a serious turn!

 :laugh: :laugh:

As my friends say when they settle in to watch a "true crime" reality show, it's Muuurrrrrddeeeerrrrrrr ......



Offline Front-Ranger

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Or. . .Redrum!!
May 2019 be better for us all.