symbols that are different in the story vs the movie

[serious crayons]

But it's... it's a difficult emotional commitment, for me at least. I think I read the story maybe once during the six months after I watched the movie, and it felt so harsh, like it was under a light that was just too bright or something.

Well put. There's something soothing and comfortable about the movie -- even the sad parts, in a way. But the story isn't soothing or comfortable even in the happy parts.

I finally did read the story but have been procrastinating posting my findings here because I would like to say something profound and insightful and brilliant about what I learned. And ... well ... I'm still waiting for inspiration to strike.

I did notice some little things, interesting uses of symbols and foreshadowing. Like how the cold coffee, in the italicized intro part, is like Ennis' memories of their "old, cold time on the mountain": stale but rewarmed, poured into a stained cup so it might stoke the day. (And when he first sees Jack at the reunion, "a hot jolt scalded" him.) Or how, on their last trip, pessimistic Ennis keeps waiting for clouds to appear, which they finally do, but not until the third day (when it portentiously snows). It's as if he can't make the most of the good times because he's so busy expecting bad, while optimistic Jack notices the boneless blue so deep "that he might drown looking up," which of course he later does.

And the bear they spot on that final trip that runs away "with a lumpish gait that made it seem it was falling apart." I guess that makes me think of Ennis, falling apart from the stress of living his double life. Inspired by an excellent post about Jungian archetypes on imdb by Malina (who is at BetterMost, also), I dug up my own Jung book and found that a dream about encountering a dangerous animal supposedly indicates that the dreamer is confronting some alienated part of his real identity that has split off and needs to be reintegrated. That perfectly fits the bear scene in the movie and maybe sort of in the story.

Anyway, those are all kind of micro things, and I'd like to find something more macro. Maybe my mind just works better at the micro level.

[Front-Ranger]

Katherine, we're still waaaaaiiiiiitttting.....

[Ellemeno]

I seem to go through waves of having insight, and then having none, but I like the direction you're headed here, with each post I go, "Oh yeah, good observation."  And I love the community of each person adding a piece.  I love this kind of thread.

[serious crayons]

Here's a post I accidentally put in the screenplay-comparison thread, but it really belongs here.

Story Ennis is not only less homophobic than Movie Ennis, he's also more chatty. Movie Ennis is downright shy and taciturn, whereas Story Ennis talks about the same amount as Jack (another reason the story characters seem less distinguishable).

I always figure Movie Ennis is quiet not only because that's his inherent nature, but because of his childhood experiences. The Earl episode was just the tip of the iceberg. If Ennis could even consider the possibility that his dad, someone he seems to have respected, tortured someone to death for being gay, we can assume that his entire childhood was pretty terrifying and confusing and shame-filled and awful. And we can figure that the fear of revealing that one big part of his nature scared him into keeping ALL of himself hidden.

Judging by personality, talkative Story Ennis would appear not to have had that same kind of a repressed childhood. And that matches what seems to be the main reason for Story Ennis to reject Jack's offer: because of Earl, he knows that living with another man would be dangerous. It's more a pragmatic decision based on an isolated trauma, than the result of inner conflict built over years of fear. The larger implications of how the Earl incident might have affected his youth, though still there if you think about it, are not reflected in Ennis' personality.

BTW, I keep wanting to start a whole thread about Ennis and the Earl incident. So often I see people say Ennis behaved the way he did as if it's the result of that one horrifying experience. Whereas in fact that's just a story that lends itself to telling, both by Ennis and the film/story, but suggests much more than that. "For all I know, he done the job" is, for me, the key line.

[Front-Ranger]

Whenever I get too freaked out thinking about poor Rich and Earl, I remember what I saw when driving down south to Albuquerque this summer, where I met Impish. There was a diner by the side of a highway near Tucumcari, with a big sign that said "Steve and Earl's Diner." Next time I go that way I'm going to stop in and see if I can meet Steve and/or Earl. I'll bet they've had a sweet life, at least a sweet time making cinnamon rolls and such.

[Brown Eyes]

For what it's worth, I think the beans in the story are "happy symbols" (reminder of Brokeback, etc.) that get increasingly tainted by the complexities of Ennis's state of mind over his situation and ultimately by Jack's death (which in Ennis's mind was a murder... whether or not it actually was).  So, in a dream (as in the last description of the beans and spoon in Ennis's dream) they shape shift from being something wonderful to something scary.

I love the suggestion about the Asian symbolism of beans and virility.  I think that's very smart.  And, it's nice that it fits together with other symbols, like the shirts and the color blue, that can be traced back to Asian stories, traditions, etc.


OK.  So, I've had an idea for a new thread, but I think I'll just add the question here since my question comes down to a story vs. movie issue.

It seems like an enormous decision on the part of the filmmakers to change the order in which the film unfolds... to remove the aspect of the whole story existing as a flashback in Ennis's mind.  I think the opening italicized section of the short story is maybe the best part of the written version of the story (for me at least).  It makes the whole relationship seem extremely whistful and we're sure that we're learning about the story of Jack and Ennis through the filter of Ennis's memory and perceptions.  In the film by removing the suggestion that the whole film is really a flashback, the filmmakers remove this element of subjectivity.  But, my question is... Is there any suggestion that the whole film is a flashback/ memory understood through Ennis's point of view?  We all understand that Ennis is the protagonist... but this seems more important in terms of the narration of the story vs. the film.  It seems like in both the film and the story the most important moment that we get through Jack's perspective is the drowsy embrace flashback (plus of course the snippets that we see of his life in Texas, etc.).  But are we supposed to understand that most of the movie is perceived through Ennis's perspective? 

I hope this question is clear.  I fear that it is no.    But, I'd be interested in hearing thoughts on the subject.

[nakymaton]

Here's part of a post I wrote in the "getting hit hard by offhand revelations" thread... at one point, we were talking a little about POV in the story vs the movie.

***beginning of old post***

The movie, on the other hand, seems to be shown from the perspective of a sort of a voyeur.  Sometimes we watch Jack and Ennis from another person's viewpoint, like when we see the Happy Tussle through Aguirre's binoculars or when we see part of the reunion kiss from Alma's doorway. Sometimes we get a glimpse of what Jack or Ennis sees when they look at each other -- those views of Ennis in Jack's rearview mirror, for instance, or the times when they look across the wide spaces of the mountain at each other. And sometimes, we're completely on the outside, looking at everything -- and we even get shut out when the tent flap closes. But even though we're often on the outside looking at both of them, the view we see hasn't been edited to remove the emotional stuff, unlike the story as told from Ennis's viewpoint. So we see Ennis's emotional conflicts given (extraordinarily subtle, yay) expression on Heath's face, and we see Jack's tender looks during moments like TS2 and the hotel scene. I think that makes a difference in how the audience views the characters.

[Front-Ranger]

I beg to differ, Mel. There are several passages in the story that begin with "Ennis felt..." To wit... (pulls out incredibly dog-eared xeroxed copy of story mangled and maimed with multicoloured markups) "Ennis...thought he'd never had such a good time, felt he could paw the white out of the moon." and "He felt about as bad as he ever had and it took a long time for the feeling to wear off." So, it seems to me that I understand Ennis's feelings better from reading the story than I do from watching the movie. But that could perhaps just be because I am a word person more than I am an image person (I wish that was not the case, but it is.)

The difference between the story and the movie that really throws me is that Ennis sings in the story and enjoys it. I wish that had been transferred over to the movie. I would love to hear Heath singing the salty words to The Strawberry Roan in his beautiful baritone voice. And we know he can sing...he sang in "10 Things I Hate About You." 

[Brown Eyes]

BUMP!!!

[Front-Ranger]

Thank you for that bump, Amanda. You know I just have no resistance! I'm like LaShawn in Neiman Marcus. Today I'm wondering about the difference in the symbol of the harmonica in the movie and in the story. The harmonica is really mentioned only once in the story, but we know it has significance. Annie is very fond of wind instruments, she made a whole book called Accordion Crimes.

The harmonica is expanded on in the movie, it's used for comic relief. But, is that all it is? Is there more??