Author Topic: Working for Aguirre  (Read 6660 times)

Offline saucycobblers

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Working for Aguirre
« on: September 20, 2006, 03:19:10 pm »
I've just been pondering on the scene with the Chilean sheep, where Ennis says to Jack "Oh yeah, f**k Aguirre. And what if we have to work for him again, hunh?" (or words to that effect).

I can't make up my mind if at this point Ennis sees a possibility of an ongoing companionship (if not relationship) at this point? Has he 'forgotten' about Alma? Or does he think it's possible he can get married and still come to work on Brokeback with Jack the next summer. Has he at this point not yet accepted that he and Jack will part at summer's end? Or is he thinking already of them as separate entities, who might work for Aguirre again but not together?

Hmmm... I can't quite decide. What do you think?

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Offline serious crayons

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Re: Working for Aguirre
« Reply #1 on: September 20, 2006, 03:51:09 pm »
Good question! I think that's an interesting line, too.

Maybe Ennis is so caught up in their relationship at that point that he isn't thinking that clearly about the future, or is not facing up to it. I especially like how he says "what if we want to work for him" rather than "what if one of us wants to work for him." As if he and Jack would be seeking work as a team.

Offline saucycobblers

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Re: Working for Aguirre
« Reply #2 on: September 20, 2006, 03:55:34 pm »
I especially like how he says "what if we want to work for him" rather than "what if one of us wants to work for him." As if he and Jack would be seeking work as a team.

Yeah, exactly. I think maybe Ennis is in deep denial at this point. Sometimes it's remarkable how one can kid oneself when the truth seems too hard. Especially with a first love, it can seem incomprehensible that it will ever end.
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Offline Jeff Wrangler

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Re: Working for Aguirre
« Reply #3 on: September 20, 2006, 04:19:06 pm »
Writing from work without the screenplay in front of me, but are you sure it's "what if we want to work for" Aguirre, or is it "what if we have to work for" Aguirre?

I don't think this line has anything to do with their relationship. It's just Ennis, the poor ranch kid "desperate for any job," not wanting to screw up--or wanting to unscrew the mess of the mingled flocks--in case he needs to go begging to Joe Aguirre for a job again in the future. That's a very working-class attitude and it doesn't have anything to do with being in love with Jack.
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Offline serious crayons

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Re: Working for Aguirre
« Reply #4 on: September 20, 2006, 04:29:04 pm »
Writing from work without the screenplay in front of me, but are you sure it's "what if we want to work for" Aguirre, or is it "what if we have to work for" Aguirre?

I don't think this line has anything to do with their relationship. It's just Ennis, the poor ranch kid "desperate for any job," not wanting to screw up--or wanting to unscrew the mess of the mingled flocks--in case he needs to go begging to Joe Aguirre for a job again in the future. That's a very working-class attitude and it doesn't have anything to do with being in love with Jack.

I looked up the line. It's "what if we need to work for him." So you are close, Jeff.

And I think your reading of the line and scene is one perfectly sensible way to interpret it!  :)

Offline nakymaton

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Re: Working for Aguirre
« Reply #5 on: September 20, 2006, 04:31:59 pm »
That's a very working-class attitude and it doesn't have anything to do with being in love with Jack.

It is. And yet...

Can I play the movie-vs-story game here, too, since I've been playing it all over the place?

I think this is another scene where the events are similar in both places, but where the dynamics are different.

In the story, the scene is the first indication that paradise is about to end:

Even when the numbers were right Ennis knew the sheep were mixed. In a disquieting way everything seemed mixed.

And in the movie... well, Jack's bitching about Aguirre, and Ennis is being responsible, and aren't they just sooooooo cute together when they're like that? ;) And then when they're done sorting out the sheep, there's nothing disquieting or mixed about the emotions on Ennis's face. He teases Jack about the harmonica, he gives that lovely smile of his, and the sun sets over a mountain landscape that is even more beautiful than the two men. (Hey, indulge me in my scenery-swooning for a bit. I've been really restrained about it lately. ;) )

So even though, yeah, it's a pretty typical working-class kind of attitude, there's something about the whole dynamic of the sheep-sorting that seems... comfortable. Or domestic. Or idyllic, despite mixed-up sheep and f***ing Aguirre (or not). It's one of those artless, charmed happiness moments for me, at least.

(Though maybe it's just because I am in love with that landscape.)
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Offline saucycobblers

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Re: Working for Aguirre
« Reply #6 on: September 20, 2006, 05:37:58 pm »
I don't think this line has anything to do with their relationship. It's just Ennis, the poor ranch kid "desperate for any job," not wanting to screw up--or wanting to unscrew the mess of the mingled flocks--in case he needs to go begging to Joe Aguirre for a job again in the future.

Hehe. Yeah, I can be prone to reading way too much into the smallest of things, but I can't help feeling there's more to it than that. Just my opinion. Or maybe just my wishful thinking  ::)

Even when the numbers were right Ennis knew the sheep were mixed. In a disquieting way everything seemed mixed.

Thanks for brining that quote from the book up Mel. I'd forgotten about that one. Brings even more possible interpretations to the line. Everything in the film is so imbued with hidden and multiple and symbolic meanings that I can't quite believe it merely belies a working-class attitude...
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Offline opinionista

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Re: Working for Aguirre
« Reply #7 on: September 20, 2006, 06:02:06 pm »

Maybe Ennis is so caught up in their relationship at that point that he isn't thinking that clearly about the future, or is not facing up to it. I especially like how he says "what if we want to work for him" rather than "what if one of us wants to work for him." As if he and Jack would be seeking work as a team.

I agree with Katherine here. However, I think he might also be worrying about lack of work. Job opportinities were scarce in Wyoming, especially for ranch hands like Ennis, so I guess he was trying to hold onto that job by leaving a good impression of his performance, in case he needed it in the future.
« Last Edit: September 20, 2006, 06:04:13 pm by opinionista »
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Offline serious crayons

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Re: Working for Aguirre
« Reply #8 on: September 20, 2006, 06:54:51 pm »
I think it's another one of those situations in which everybody's right. I don't think Ennis is consciously thinking, "Hmm, now that Jack and I have become life partners we'll both need jobs, so ..." Yet it could actually have some deeper meaning.

If you see the characters as autonomous individuals with their own private thoughts, it's possible Ennis is unconsciously choosing words that suggest he's been thinking of them as a couple -- even though, if he spent two seconds thinking directly about it, he would know it ain't gonna be that way.

If you see the characters as fictional figures controlled by an author and/or filmmakers (in this case maybe more of the latter, as Mel points out) it could be a deliberate sly way of suggesting that coupledom very subtly, almost under the radar, which I believe they do a lot. Or even their simply recognizing that if they had Ennis say, "what if one of us needs to work for him" it would prematurely introduce the topic of their inevitable future parting, at a point in the plot when they'd rather focus on their togetherness.

Or it could be none of the above, just a random choice of words that show, as Natali points out, Ennis is concerned about future employment! I rarely think anything in the movie is random, but admittedly this is a very small detail.

Offline opinionista

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Re: Working for Aguirre
« Reply #9 on: September 21, 2006, 09:22:26 am »
I think it's another one of those situations in which everybody's right. I don't think Ennis is consciously thinking, "Hmm, now that Jack and I have become life partners we'll both need jobs, so ..." Yet it could actually have some deeper meaning.

If you see the characters as autonomous individuals with their own private thoughts, it's possible Ennis is unconsciously choosing words that suggest he's been thinking of them as a couple -- even though, if he spent two seconds thinking directly about it, he would know it ain't gonna be that way.

If you see the characters as fictional figures controlled by an author and/or filmmakers (in this case maybe more of the latter, as Mel points out) it could be a deliberate sly way of suggesting that coupledom very subtly, almost under the radar, which I believe they do a lot. Or even their simply recognizing that if they had Ennis say, "what if one of us needs to work for him" it would prematurely introduce the topic of their inevitable future parting, at a point in the plot when they'd rather focus on their togetherness.

Or it could be none of the above, just a random choice of words that show, as Natali points out, Ennis is concerned about future employment! I rarely think anything in the movie is random, but admittedly this is a very small detail.


Well, this isn't the first time, in the movie at least, Ennis expresses his concern for the job. When he rans into the bear and the mules ran away, scared, dropping all the food, Jack proposes to kill a sheep. And Ennis says "We're supposed to guard them not eat them". I don't think he was being ethical or anything, since he had no problem killing an elk on a preserved forest land. I think he was a bit afraid Aguirre might find out about it.
Good judgement comes from experience. Experience comes from bad judgement. -Mark Twain.