19 or 20?

[chowhound]

Up until now, I've assumed that Ennis and Jack were both nineteen when they first meet on Brokeback in the summer of '63. Indeed, the timeline I created for Brokeback partly depends on this assumption. The assumption was based on the short story:

""It would be Jack Twist's second summer on the mountain, Ennis's first. Neither of them was twenty."

Earlier today I was revisiting an interview that Ang Lee had with Charlie Rose a few days before the movie's initial release. At one point, Charlie Rose asks Ang Lee to outline the story for him and in so doing Ang says that it's a story about "two ranch hands - one age of 20, one 19" - who first meet on Brokeback Mountain. Ang Lee's specificity puzzled me until I went back, not to the short story but to the screen play. There, in introducing Ennis, it's stated that he is "about twenty". Jack, on the other hand is quite definitely described as "twenty". So it looks as though Ang and presumably his actors had decided to make Jack slightly older than Ennis with Jack at twenty and Ennis nineteen.

Does it matter if Jack is that bit older than Ennis? As Ang Lee is so specific about the difference in their ages when he's introducing them, it seems that it mattered to him. Maybe he perceived Jack as slightly more "experienced" than Ennis not only in having been on Brokeback the year before but in other matters as well. Any thoughts on this?

Clearly, when I have the time, I should revisit that timeline. Some alterations will probably have to be made, if it's to be, as I intended, a timeline for the movie rather than the short story.

[Brown Eyes]

Interesting!  I never thought of either of them being anything but 19 in the beginning.  However, it would fit the theme of Jack being slightly ahead in almost all things (experience on the mountain, seeming acceptance of his sexuality, possibly sexual experience, being at the front of the flock, being in front on the way to the bar early on, leading the sheep and Ennis across the stream when they go up the mountain, etc. ).

[Monika]

Doesn´t Jack die in 1983 when he is 39?
That would make him 19 in 1963.


Maybe he was older than Ennis still. Maybe Ennis was 18?

[brokeplex]

Doesn´t Jack die in 1983 when he is 39?
That would make him 19 in 1963.


Maybe he was older than Ennis still. Maybe Ennis was 18?

correct, Lureen told Ennis when he called about Jack's death, that "he wasn't yet 40". so, Jack had to be 19 in 1963, but Ennis could have been younger.

[Monika]

 Maybe he perceived Jack as slightly more "experienced" than Ennis not only in having been on Brokeback the year before but in other matters as well. Any thoughts on this?

sorry for going OT but often when I read the passage where Pa Twist pees on Jack, the thought that he might have abused Jack sexually crosses my mind. It just seems as sucha perverted thing to do.
I'm just curious whether anyone else ever has made this association?
To me this might explain Jack's apparent "know-how".

[Front-Ranger]

In the story, Annie Proulx emphasizes Jack and Ennis's similarities and sets up a "two against the world" scenario. But in the movie, Ang Lee approaches the story of Ennis and Jack as a kind of yin/yang complementary relationship, where their differences are emphasized. Thus, Jack is the "experienced" one and Ennis is the "unexperienced" one (in sexual terms). Buffy, I think Jack's experience comes more from hanging around rodeos, rather than abuse by his father (although what his father does IS sexual abuse IMO). It hadn't happened before because the peeing scene is where Jack finds out that his father is uncircumsized.

[chowhound]

correct, Lureen told Ennis when he called about Jack's death, that "he wasn't yet 40". so, Jack had to be 19 in 1963, but Ennis could have been younger.

Not necessarily, Buffymon and brokeplex. If Jack is 19 that summer on Brokeback, as the short story suggests, then he must have been born in the later months of 1943 and dies sometime in the summer of 1983 before he turns forty. However, if he is 20 when he first meets Ennis, as the screenplay states, then everything moves back a year to 1942-1982. When I get around to correcting that timeline, these are the dates I'll use in the modified version.  I want it to be a timeline for the movie rather than the short and with this variant about how old Jack is when he first meets Ennis, you can't make the same timeline fit both movie and short story.

[Marina]

But in the movie, Ang Lee approaches the story of Ennis and Jack as a kind of yin/yang complementary relationship.

This was so beautifully apparent, wasn't it? 

Whether 19 or 20 - never give it any thought.     

I guess I just assumed they were both around the same age due to the short story.   I never thought Jack was much more experienced than Ennis, just that he was more willing to go with his feelings and take the risk on love, and Ennis was more hesitant. 

[Penthesilea]

Not necessarily, Buffymon and brokeplex. If Jack is 19 that summer on Brokeback, as the short story suggests, then he must have been born in the later months of 1943 and dies sometime in the summer of 1943 before he turns forty. However, if he is 20 when he first meets Ennis, as the screenplay states, then everything moves back a year to 1942-1982. When I get around to correcting that timeline, these are the dates I'll use in the modified version.  I want it to be a timeline for the movie rather than the short and with this variant about how old Jack is when he first meets Ennis, you can't make the same timeline fit both movie and short story.

I wouldn't hold on religiously to the timeline as it is stated in the script. It's screwed up in several places. You'll get in trouble with calculating towards the end.

The script (according to STS book) says their last meeting takes place in 1981 (whereas the SS says May 1983).
It must have been before August, because Ennis cancels the August meeting, and tells Jack it'll be November till they can see each other again.

Then comes the scene with Cassie in the Greyhound station (also 1981 according to the script).

But low and behold, when Ennis recieves the postcard stamped deceased, the script says 1982. Same for Ennis's phone call with Lureen: 1982.
This is wrong, because on the postcard we see Ennis had been asking to meet at Pine Creek on November, 7th. November, as he had told Jack at their last meeting.

[brokeplex]

 I want it to be a timeline for the movie rather than the short and with this variant about how old Jack is when he first meets Ennis, you can't make the same timeline fit both movie and short story.

yes, I agree,  you can't make a timeline that fits both the film and the short story. the film makes some departures in the timeline of the short story. for example, I am convinced that because of the date shown in the film when Jack competes in the rodeo in Childress, and the date shown on the post card sent to Ennis later, that Bobby can't be Jack's child. But, the short story has no such implications.