Author Topic: Zero at the Bone by MadLori  (Read 75024 times)

Offline Mikaela

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Re: Zero at the Bone by MadLori
« Reply #280 on: July 04, 2009, 04:40:43 am »
Thank you for responding, Lori. I like your explanations, I'm glad you provided them.

It's not perfect, plotwise.  But the real point of the book is the relationship, and D's journey back to the human race, and if the reader can buy the plot enough to hang the relationship on it, it gets by.  I hope.

You hope correctly.  :) I do buy the plot (and as you know, everyone else does) more than enough to hang the relationship on it. And I love the relationship and the characters.

I never can stop pondering the realism of the outward plot when reading stories like this. If the plot gets to unbelievable or far-fetched, if there are too many coincidences and deus-ex-machina events, and especially if characters do too many illogical things to keep the plot moving, the story reaches a tipping point where I don't really buy any of it anymore, including the psychological inner workings of the main protagonists. In such cases I can still read the story and find it entertaining, but it won't be more than that.

Zero is *much* more than that. Be very assured of that. :)

I'm looking forward to the sequel!!!


Offline Mikaela

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Re: Zero at the Bone by MadLori
« Reply #281 on: July 04, 2009, 04:53:20 am »
What were some of the questions you had about "Shades of Grey"? I really enjoyed that story too.

I guess that belongs in another thread and would require a really long post. But it mainly had to do with the numerous reckless and irrational things Hinestroza and Madrigal do once Jack calls to give himself up. I could not believe a chief mob boss and his main henchman of many years would be so stupid and still remain in their "positions" year after year, couldn't believe the Feds or the mob competitors hadn't taken them out a long time ago. And since Madrigal is supposed to be the scary near-untouchable menace and Hinestroza is the big Guy who's been smarter than the feds (and Ennis) and is a weird surrogate father figure to Jack; - once the two bad guys come across as utter morons too much of the plot (past and present), and some of Ennis's and Jack's related motivations, fell flat. 

Mind you, Shades of Grey is still a wonderful, beautiful, high-quality fic - the prose and the description of the developing relationship between its Jack and Ennis are close to being unrivalled.

I absolutely love SoG - I guess I was expecting perfection all the way, and that was why I got so disappointed when the bad guys started behaving irrationally in order for the plot to reach its climax. Because really, my objections could have been removed with some relatively minor plot changes. I've always wondered who beta'd for Amy and whether they raised any of my objections.

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Re: Zero at the Bone by MadLori
« Reply #282 on: July 04, 2009, 09:11:56 pm »
I guess that belongs in another thread and would require a really long post. But it mainly had to do with the numerous reckless and irrational things Hinestroza and Madrigal do once Jack calls to give himself up. I could not believe a chief mob boss and his main henchman of many years would be so stupid and still remain in their "positions" year after year, couldn't believe the Feds or the mob competitors hadn't taken them out a long time ago. And since Madrigal is supposed to be the scary near-untouchable menace and Hinestroza is the big Guy who's been smarter than the feds (and Ennis) and is a weird surrogate father figure to Jack; - once the two bad guys come across as utter morons too much of the plot (past and present), and some of Ennis's and Jack's related motivations, fell flat. 

Mind you, Shades of Grey is still a wonderful, beautiful, high-quality fic - the prose and the description of the developing relationship between its Jack and Ennis are close to being unrivalled.

I absolutely love SoG - I guess I was expecting perfection all the way, and that was why I got so disappointed when the bad guys started behaving irrationally in order for the plot to reach its climax. Because really, my objections could have been removed with some relatively minor plot changes. I've always wondered who beta'd for Amy and whether they raised any of my objections.

I see your points. And yeah, if we continue we should move this over to The SOG thread. But, I absolutely love SOG too, and since it is a fanfiction, whatever plot holes or other problems with the story may exist I can easily overlook them if the writer gets the emotional connection between J&E right. SOG does that very very well.

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Re: Zero at the Bone by MadLori
« Reply #283 on: July 04, 2009, 09:13:38 pm »
Hi Mikaela!  These are all good points.  I can't claim that absolutely everything in the story hangs together perfectly...it's a bit of a hazard of writing something serially.  In fact, I seriously considered deleting the entire "kidnap Jack" scenario from the story for just the reason you cite, but it's such a key moment in their interpersonal relationship that I decided to let it slide.

Josey's plan, by her own admission, changed a couple of times, by necessity and as a response to D and Jack's involvement.  You're right in that any of the other kills D performed could have gotten him the death penalty, but that wasn't enough for her.  What she wanted was for him to break his own personal code against killing the innocent and THEN to be executed for THAT.  That element of poetic justice was really what she was after.

When the initial plan went awry, when D refused to kill Jack, the plan had to change.  She tried to reacquire them at the gas station...at this point she probably just wanted both of them dead.  Remember that there still was a contract on Jack's life in which she was financially invested, so she would have wanted him dead as well.

Then they vanished for at least a week.  During this time she would have been able to regroup and formulate a new plan.  My imagining was that she staged the kidnap scheme to get D back under her control, then planned to reacquire Jack, either right then and there or a little way down the road.  Then she'd either force D to kill him or kill him herself and frame D for it.  Taht didn't fly thanks to Megan's interference and the boys disappeared again.  And so on.

It's not perfect, plotwise.  But the real point of the book is the relationship, and D's journey back to the human race, and if the reader can buy the plot enough to hang the relationship on it, it gets by.  I hope.

I'll tell you, writing the sequel is proving much easier because I can write it all in one shot and make these things more clear at the outset.

Thanks for clearing these things up. I can hardly wait for the sequel.

Offline louisev

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Re: Zero at the Bone by MadLori
« Reply #284 on: July 04, 2009, 09:52:49 pm »
If you want some comments or sections of your posts moved or copied to the Shades of Grey thread I can take care of that for you.
“Mr. Coyote always gets me good, boy,”  Ellery said, winking.  “Almost forgot what life was like before I got me my own personal coyote.”


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Re: Zero at the Bone by MadLori
« Reply #285 on: July 17, 2009, 10:32:53 pm »
If Zero where a movie who could you see staring in it? For some reason I can visualize Brad Pitt as D. I know their characters are in their mid-thirties and Brad is older than that, but he's in good shape and looks much younger than his age. He's a natural blond too, so that's a plus, and he'd pull off a crew cut well. As  far as acting goes, I think he's be up to the demands for D. I remember he was looking for a gay role when BBM was in the theaters. he was impressed by the film and it's box office success and who wouldn't like to see B.P. in a bedroom scene with another man? As far as the Jack character goes, no it can't be Jake, but I can't think of anyone right now. Gerard Butler?  Just to toss a name out. Or what about that UK actor James Pruefoy (Sp?) he was Marc Anthony is the HBO series Rome.
Who could you imagine playing D and Jack?

Offline Mikaela

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Re: Zero at the Bone by MadLori
« Reply #286 on: July 18, 2009, 05:09:10 am »
It's very difficult to not envisage Heath and Jake as the leads.

But if I had to come up with someone...

Daniel Craig as D andJoseph Gordon-Levitt as Jack

Problem is they're too far apart in RL, age-wise. Perhaps a good make-up dept. could make them "meet in the middle".

Offline Monika

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Re: Zero at the Bone by MadLori
« Reply #287 on: July 18, 2009, 01:04:33 pm »
I think Joaquin Phoenix could do a fine job as Jack. As E IŽd cast Gary Oldman.

retropian

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Re: Zero at the Bone by MadLori
« Reply #288 on: July 21, 2009, 04:25:37 am »
I think Joaquin Phoenix could do a fine job as Jack. As E IŽd cast Gary Oldman.

Hmmm, Joaquin p, might work, but Gary Oldman is, while a grreat actor, Old man.


It's very difficult to not envisage Heath and Jake as the leads.

But if I had to come up with someone...

Daniel Craig as D andJoseph Gordon-Levitt as Jack

Problem is they're too far apart in RL, age-wise. Perhaps a good make-up dept. could make them "meet in the middle".

Daniel C. is great, he can do that whole intense and repressed thing really well. I love J.G-L, but he's too young for me. I know he's in his twenties now, but to me, he still look like he's about 17.

I think I like Daniel Craig and Gerard Butler together. LOL, fantasy matchup! Or how about a reunion from "Fight Club"? Brad Pitt as D and Edward Norton as Jack?

Offline ifyoucantfixit

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Re: Zero at the Bone by MadLori
« Reply #289 on: October 05, 2009, 12:51:19 am »


   i think that Gerard Butler would make a perfect D.  As for Doc, I think that the "mastor' vampire would be great for that part.
I think he would be perfect for that part.  The guy that looks younger than his real age,  Rob Pattinson!!  Just my idea.



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