Author Topic: Resurrecting the Movies thread...  (Read 1040654 times)

Offline serious crayons

  • BetterMost Moderator
  • The BetterMost 10,000 Post Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 22,764
Re: Resurrecting the Movies thread...
« Reply #1470 on: November 27, 2009, 01:34:39 pm »
I thought the director was from New Zealand?

Nope. Neill Blomkamp: born 17 September 1979, Johannesburg, South Africa.

Quote
OK, I understand this, but this is a big, Yeah, So?  Anyone above the age of the character knows this.  We didn't need a movie to tell us this.  So what an audience might have expected to see was how the kid handled these emotions, calmed and controlled them and gained some sense of himself in the doing of it - IOW a coming of age story.  So what did the kid do with these emotions?  As far as I can tell from the movie, he did nothing.  Just experienced them, the monsters had no resolution and then he went home where there was no resolution there either.

What the kid did with the emotions was to gain a new perspective on them, by seeing them in the form of the wild things rather than roiling around unnamed in his own mind. He didn't control them in the sense of vanquishing them, but in the sense of seeing that they're an inevitable part of life -- disturbing and not always controllable, but survivable. And there was resolution at home, which resembled the way things like that are resolved in real life: imperfectly. People get mad at each other, they say regrettable things, but in the end they still love each other, which  they eventually recognize is more important than passing flares of anger.

Offline delalluvia

  • BetterMost 5000+ Posts Club
  • *******
  • Posts: 8,289
  • "Truth is an iron bride"
Re: Resurrecting the Movies thread...
« Reply #1471 on: November 27, 2009, 01:44:36 pm »
]
What the kid did with the emotions was to gain a new perspective on them, by seeing them in the form of the wild things rather than roiling around unnamed in his own mind.

How did he get a new perspective on them?  I didn't see this at all.  He reacts to the situations with the monsters no differently than how he did at home, except with the monsters he actually has power, whereas at home, his childish ideas are ignored.

Quote
He didn't control them in the sense of vanquishing them, but in the sense of seeing that they're an inevitable part of life -- disturbing and not always controllable, but survivable.

Was there ever a question in his mind that they weren't?  Has he never gotten mad before?  Seems to me that a kid as mischevious as Max, who wears a Wolf costume, who is obviously attention-seeking, has many many times experienced wild emotions and they're already a part of him.

Quote
And there was resolution at home, which resembled the way things like that are resolved in real life: imperfectly. People get mad at each other, they say regrettable things, but in the end they still love each other, which  they eventually recognize is more important than passing flares of anger.

Again, I never saw this as sometihing he didn't already know.  Max is a child, but not an infant.  He goes to school, he has a sibling, he already knows people can fight and fall out and it not be a permanent situation.   

Offline Front-Ranger

  • BetterMost Moderator
  • The BetterMost 10,000 Post Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 30,330
  • Brokeback got us good.
Re: Resurrecting the Movies thread...
« Reply #1472 on: November 27, 2009, 01:54:40 pm »
So my feelings toward her were vaguely positive before she duped and endangered JGL.


Who is JGL??
"chewing gum and duct tape"

Offline serious crayons

  • BetterMost Moderator
  • The BetterMost 10,000 Post Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 22,764
Re: Resurrecting the Movies thread...
« Reply #1473 on: November 27, 2009, 01:56:56 pm »
How did he get a new perspective on them?  I didn't see this at all.  He reacts to the situations with the monsters no differently than how he did at home, except with the monsters he actually has power, whereas at home, his childish ideas are ignored.

But he gets outside of those emotions -- for example, when consoling the goatlike one who complains of always being ignored, or when seeing that the main one has destroyed his toothpick landscape the way that Max had destroyed the popsicle-stick heart he made for his sister -- rather than being controlled by them.

Quote
Was there ever a question in his mind that they weren't?  Has he never gotten mad before?  Seems to me that a kid as mischevious as Max, who wears a Wolf costume, who is obviously attention-seeking, has many many times experienced wild emotions and they're already a part of him.

Again, I never saw this as sometihing he didn't already know.  Max is a child, but not an infant.  He goes to school, he has a sibling, he already knows people can fight and fall out and it not be a permanent situation.    

I don't know. I said I thought the movie was interesting, not a masterpiece, so I'm really not up for defending it endlessly. But I don't think the movie was intended to depict some singularly life-changing experience, as if Max never had any inkling about any of this stuff until that one fateful night. No, I think it was simply showing, in metaphorical terms, the way that kids gradually learn to handle emotions as they grow up. Small children (younger than Max) really don't know how to handle their emotions, and as they mature they get better at it, but even adults do it imperfectly.

One flaw I saw in the movie is that the actor who played Max seemed a little too old for the part. The plot about dealing with emotions might make more sense with a younger child, and in fact the kid in the book appears younger. But he was a good actor, and I'm sure it would be hard to get a 5-year-old to carry a movie.

Here's an excerpt from a NYT piece that describes it fairly well:

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/08/movies/08scot.html

Quote
Mr. Jonze’s film, extrapolated from a few hundred words and a dozen or so illustrations by Maurice Sendak — not uncontroversial in their own right, by the way — is dense with difficult emotions. The hero, Max, is often angry and lonely, frustrated when his sister neglects him and jealous when his divorced mother spends time with her boyfriend. The depiction of Max’s home life and his impulsive, aggressive behavior seem almost designed to provoke disapproval from some concerned, hypercritical party or another, even if those opening scenes of domestic chaos also elicit a flicker of pained recognition.

But like Dorothy before him, who found in Oz some of the same characters she’d left back in Kansas, Max escapes to an enchanted world that looks a lot like home. The furry, talking creatures who give the movie its name are strikingly grouchy, quarrelsome and passive-aggressive. They whine, they pout, they manipulate, they break things and hurt one another for no good reason. One of them makes a big deal about her cool new friends, who turn out to be a pair of terrified owls. Others use self-deprecation as a way to feel special, or deploy aggression to mask insecurity.

They act, in short, just like people and turn to Max, a human child in a wolf suit who proclaims himself a king, to deliver them from their humanity. The love between ruler and subjects is mutual, but so is the disillusionment that rounds off Max’s sojourn on the island and sends him back across the sea to his mother. No place is free of conflict and bad feeling, and no person has the power to make problems disappear. Where there is happiness — friendship, adventure, affection, security — there is also, inevitably, disappointment. That’s life.


Offline serious crayons

  • BetterMost Moderator
  • The BetterMost 10,000 Post Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 22,764
Re: Resurrecting the Movies thread...
« Reply #1474 on: November 27, 2009, 01:57:48 pm »

Offline delalluvia

  • BetterMost 5000+ Posts Club
  • *******
  • Posts: 8,289
  • "Truth is an iron bride"
Re: Resurrecting the Movies thread...
« Reply #1475 on: November 27, 2009, 02:36:59 pm »
No, I think it was simply showing, in metaphorical terms, the way that kids gradually learn to handle emotions as they grow up. Small children (younger than Max) really don't know how to handle their emotions, and as they mature they get better at it, but even adults do it imperfectly.

One flaw I saw in the movie is that the actor who played Max seemed a little too old for the part. The plot about dealing with emotions might make more sense with a younger child, and in fact the kid in the book appears younger. But he was a good actor, and I'm sure it would be hard to get a 5-year-old to carry a movie.

Here's an excerpt from a NYT piece that describes it fairly well:

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/08/movies/08scot.html

Well, the issue I had with the movie is that I didn't see Max learning anything really.  I expected the homecoming to SHOW what he might have learned, but the ending showed nothing.  He didn't improve the monster's lives, he just left when things went south for him.

As for the link you posted, I completely disagree with analogy to Wizard of Oz.  Dorothy had regrets about her home life and how she left.  Max had none.  Basically had Dorothy been like Max, she would have left the wicked witch alive and in power, never gave a heart, brain or courage to anyone, proclaimed herself superior to everyone there and then when things turned on her, went back home without showing any sign she wouldn't run away again if she had the chance.

Offline Ellemeno

  • The BetterMost 10,000 Post Club
  • ********
  • Posts: 15,367
Re: Resurrecting the Movies thread...
« Reply #1476 on: November 27, 2009, 02:58:07 pm »
Joseph Gordon-Levitt.




Funny how he got an acronym right away, when we first started talking about him.  Faster than any actual BBM actor or character.  Doesn't it also seem like he got unoffical BBM-related status a long time ago too?

Offline serious crayons

  • BetterMost Moderator
  • The BetterMost 10,000 Post Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 22,764
Re: Resurrecting the Movies thread...
« Reply #1477 on: November 27, 2009, 03:05:34 pm »
As for the link you posted, I completely disagree with analogy to Wizard of Oz.  Dorothy had regrets about her home life and how she left.  Max had none.  Basically had Dorothy been like Max, she would have left the wicked witch alive and in power, never gave a heart, brain or courage to anyone, proclaimed herself superior to everyone there and then when things turned on her, went back home without showing any sign she wouldn't run away again if she had the chance.

In that case, WTWTA is more realistic than TWOZ. In real life, most of us don't get a chance to kill a wicked witch and see to it that all of our friends' wishes are fulfilled and return home to live happily ever after. Not to take anything from TWOZ, but it's a classic hero story with the traditional cut-and-dried conflict/action/climax/conclusion structure. WTWTA takes a more complex approach. In the end, the movie says, you never completely vanquish the "monsters" and, yes, you probably will eventually feel like running away again. Life means finding a way to deal with those realities, however imperfectly.


Offline serious crayons

  • BetterMost Moderator
  • The BetterMost 10,000 Post Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 22,764
Re: Resurrecting the Movies thread...
« Reply #1478 on: November 27, 2009, 03:08:34 pm »

Funny how he got an acronym right away, when we first started talking about him.  Faster than any actual BBM actor or character.  Doesn't it also seem like he got unoffical BBM-related status a long time ago too?

Yes!! Good point. That could almost make a whole thread: Things that don't have anything directly to do with BBM yet have unofficial BBM-related status.

Here's another one: "Wish you were here." (How many non-Brokies would understand the connection between BBM and, of all things, a Pink Floyd song?)

Offline delalluvia

  • BetterMost 5000+ Posts Club
  • *******
  • Posts: 8,289
  • "Truth is an iron bride"
Re: Resurrecting the Movies thread...
« Reply #1479 on: November 27, 2009, 04:46:51 pm »
In that case, WTWTA is more realistic than TWOZ. In real life, most of us don't get a chance to kill a wicked witch and see to it that all of our friends' wishes are fulfilled and return home to live happily ever after. Not to take anything from TWOZ, but it's a classic hero story with the traditional cut-and-dried conflict/action/climax/conclusion structure. WTWTA takes a more complex approach. In the end, the movie says, you never completely vanquish the "monsters" and, yes, you probably will eventually feel like running away again. Life means finding a way to deal with those realities, however imperfectly.

Except that Max doesn't learn to deal with those realities.  We don't see it.

What the movie is then - I'm partially agreeing with you - is a realistic - comparatively speaking - view of a kid acting out his problems at home but showing no growth, no learning, no moral to his story, just reality - that he has feelings and they happen and they're everywhere.

*Yawn*  No wonder I was bored and it was only a 1.5 hour movie.