Author Topic: TAROT IN BETTERMOST?  (Read 6825 times)

Offline x-man

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TAROT IN BETTERMOST?
« on: May 07, 2015, 03:33:58 am »
Are there any Tarot enthusiasts in BetterMost besides me?  If so, I would like to hook up (cyberly).  I have been interested in Tarot since 1970.  I use the Rider-Waite deck and the newer Gay Tarot deck.  I see Tarot as a way to access the unconscious, and am not into the occult or magic.  Practical authors I look to are ones like Bunning, Colette Brown, and of course Eden Grey.  For theoretical understandings I look to CG Jung, Eric Neumann, J. Campbell, and Mircea Eliade.  If you are a fellow Tarotian, let me know.  We can talk.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person.  Give him a mask and he will tell you the truth. ---- Oscar Wilde

Offline CellarDweller

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Re: TAROT IN BETTERMOST?
« Reply #1 on: May 07, 2015, 09:00:32 am »
I don't know much about the tarot deck, but I have had my cards read a few times.  Pretty interesting.


Tell him when l come up to him and ask to play the record, l'm gonna say: ''Voulez-vous jouer ce disque?''
'Voulez-vous, will you kiss my dick?'
Will you play my record? One-track mind!

Offline Front-Ranger

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Re: TAROT IN BETTERMOST?
« Reply #2 on: May 07, 2015, 10:01:54 am »
Hi x-man and Chuck!

It seems like BetterMost contains everything under the sun, and that includes tarot. Here are links to the major tarot-related threads:

Share your tarot card readings!
http://bettermost.net/forum/index.php/topic,17656.0/all.html

The Brokeback Tarot Card Deck
http://bettermost.net/forum/index.php/topic,15556.0/all.html

May 2019 be better for us all.

Offline x-man

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Re: TAROT IN BETTERMOST?
« Reply #3 on: May 07, 2015, 03:37:15 pm »
Actually FR I am not surprised to discover you have a Tarot thread.  I read it with great interest.  I will confine my comments to the first 5 readings you described.  

I am not familiar with the book you are using as a reference.  From what you say, I wonder if it might depart somewhat from other Tarot books especially in its treatment of the character of the 4 suits.  I take what it seems to say about Swords, but I get no indication that Swords are the “trouble” suit.  With virtually every card in the suit there is a sombre overlay.  The Tarot deck is comprehensive enough that it can say similar things in many ways—whether by individual cards or combinations, especilly 2 cards  often found together which change the meaning (called “pairs).  So it is significant when the Tarot chooses to use a particular suit to say something.  I am thinking especially here of the first card in your first reading, 7Sr (This is the 7 of Swords reversed—I'm going to use more traditional Tarot notation to save space—it's like chess notation and is easily gotten used to.)

The usual interpretation of 7S has to do with unstable efforts, only partial success in a plan being carried out or that it may fail.  And it can also refer to someone trying to steal something.  Now, when it is reversed the contrary of the first meanings is suggested—good advice or counsel.  The deck has many ways of saying good advice, etc.  Why did it do it with Swords?  It suggests to me that good advice or counsel must be read with an undercurrent of the problematic—a much darker interpretation than would be there if the same idea had been done with, say, Wands, which would seem like the obvious suit to say it.  It's your reading, of course, so what I say here may have no bearing on it at all, but it raises in my mind the several books—and online Tarot meanings—present Tarot as entirely optimistic.  Believe me, it isn't, and wouldn't be a very accurate depiction of reality if it did.

In the readings I looked at, I could find no question being asked of the cards.  General readings without a question, especially when done for oneself, are possible, but believe me  you can get a lot more precise if you present your inquiry in the form of a question, no matter how expansive or vague the question might be.  Quetions regarding the time when something is likely involved can be helped a lot by a well-formed question, although there are other ways to deal wth time.

It is very interesting when a particular card keeps reappearing in succeeding spreads—and when they morph into other cards.  In 3 of your your first 5 readings we find the KnP, in the 3rd reading reversed.  I notice you interpret the KnP as situational.  Another way to see Court cards is as referring to actual people.  In this case, perhaps you.  You might think that the Q would more appropriately indicate a woman of your age—except that the K and Q of a suit carry a sense of completion about them (not unlike Hexagram 63 in the I Ching) that the Tarot might be wanting to avoid and so has the Kn instead of the Q instead.  You know what Pentacles lean towards—a preponderance of the material, importance of money, luxury.  The Q would be the comletion or success in these matters, the Kn is somebody still on his (her?) way there.  The reason I am raising the possibility of the KnP as referring to a person is because in the 3rd reading we find the KnP reversed—changing, and the AW shows up—the classic case of the beginning of an endeavour.  In the 4th reading we find the AW changing into the 2C—suggesting that beginning may involve a relationship,.  This interpretation would be borne out by the Lovers replacing the 2C—furthering it.  Anyway, these are a few of the things that would occur to me to wonder about.  But you were there, I wasn't.  I am too far from it in time and space to have much definitive to say about it.

From your description of the cards I suspect you are using a Rider-Waite deck (or one based on it).  That deck is a must-have.  For books I wouls suggest:

Learning the Tarot by Joan Bunning (Google her, she also has an online course for free, but the book is better.)  This book is by far the best general book on Tarot I have ever seen.  The subtitle is “A Tarot Book for Beginners,” but it is more than that.  It discusses pairs, both opposing and reinforcing, which you don't often see in books.  In paperback.

Any book by Eden Gray.  His book is a short concise reference.  It comes in mn many titles and shapes, but they are all the same book,  Most versions in paperback.

Tarot: From Novice to Pro in One Book by  Colette Brown.  I'm not sure it lives up to the title, but it does have some useful stuff you won't easily find elsewhere.  

There is also a DVD, “Tarot Stripped Bare” available from Amazon.  It would be good for an absolute beginner, but has some good stuff for more experienced people, and is nice that you can put it on and lie back and just absorb information about spreads and meanings without hunching over a desk.  I just got it to add to my Tarot library, and am glad I have it, although it isn't necessary.  It will show you how a reading is conducted if you have never seen one.  The deck used is very similar to the RW deck I mentioned above.

Let me know if this is at all helpful—or to tell me I am full of shit.  Next time, if anyone is interested, I would like to tell you about The Gay Tarot deck.  I was VERY impressed.

(I hope I haven't offended you by commenting on your readings.  I am not at all trying to tell you how to interpret them.  I just wanted to point out some aspects of interpretation in general you might not be familiar with.)


 
 
« Last Edit: May 07, 2015, 11:21:54 pm by x-man »
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person.  Give him a mask and he will tell you the truth. ---- Oscar Wilde

Offline CellarDweller

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Re: TAROT IN BETTERMOST?
« Reply #4 on: May 08, 2015, 09:09:47 am »
I'm interested in hearing about the gay tarot deck.


Tell him when l come up to him and ask to play the record, l'm gonna say: ''Voulez-vous jouer ce disque?''
'Voulez-vous, will you kiss my dick?'
Will you play my record? One-track mind!

Offline x-man

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Re: TAROT IN BETTERMOST?
« Reply #5 on: May 08, 2015, 02:11:52 pm »
I'm interested in hearing about the gay tarot deck.


Hi Bee Wolf (Old English expression for guess-which animal)



I want to say a couple of things about Tarot in general, and then get to your inquiry about The Gay Tarot.

If you google <tarot> you will find lots of sites.  One of the better ones is Aeclectic Tarot.  This is the link to the site:  http://www.tarotforum.net/forumdisplay.php?f=16  I am a member of this site, and have posted to it.  It has its good aspects, and some negative ones.  Its a big area to play around in, just be aware that it attracts all sorts, some of which might benefit by having one foot anchored in reality.  But hey, who am I to point accusing fingers?  I do take issue with the site's interpretation of the cards.  It is far too close to the optimistic, brighter side of interpretation which I feel is not an accurate picture of Tarot.  So, if you take advantage of the 3-card or 1-card spreads it will give you for free, you might keep this in mind.  If you are just starting out, you might want to take the card or cards offered and get your interpretation from another source.--basically using the site as a random card generator, for which it is very good.

The discussions range from good to silly.  The intellectual rigour may not be what you hoped for, especially in the tendency there to use abstract words like “the feminine” or “intuition” to mean whatever the person posting wants to them to mean—thus conversations with everyone using words to mean different things get a little muddled,

The site is large.  What supports it financially, I suspect, are the advertisements for professional Tarot readers offering readings for money (so much per minute) but you don't need to bother with them.  The site takes a while to explore.  You will think at first that it is all about promoting various Tarot decks—it isn't.  Enjoy.

The book I recommended above, Learning the Tarot, by Joan Bunning is in my opinion the one book you absolutely must have, and is certainly the one if you are only going to have one Tarot book in your library.  She has an on line course based on the book.  Check it out to get an idea of the book—but  you will still want the book because of the way the material is arranged.  You will find yourself checking back and forth in the book to find the information you need.  This might confuse you a little at first, but you will soon discover that it is a useful way to deal with so much information and not get overwhelmed.  Here's the link to the online course:   http://www.learntarot.com/top.htm

Now, CD, to The Gay Tarot deck.  This is a link to an excellent review of the deck from the Aeclectic site.  http://www.aeclectic.net/tarot/cards/gay/review.shtml   I just want to add a bit to what he says.  

Most of the saner Tarot decks available are based on the Rider-Waite deck.  (Some decks are just not to be taken seriously—The Zombie Tarot?  The Penny Dreadful Tarot? --from the TV show.)  But most keep the same basic meanings as the RW deck, it is just the pictures on the cards that differ, but it is the pictures that excite your unconscious.  It also means that if you are familiar with the RW deck you will not have much trouble with a strange deck you run across.  This is true of The Gay Tarot, but what I have said does not capture how much those pictures can sharpen, intensify meanings for you.  I'll give you 1 example that leaped off the cards to me.

  
Tarot decks are divided into 2 unequal parts: 22 cards in the Major Arcana—sort of heavy-duty cards which have special significance, and the remaining 56 in the Minor Arcana.  The Minor Arcana is the ancestor of today's playing cards—4 suits, aces, kings, etc.  In the Major Arcana, card 16 is The Tower.  In the RW system, it represents (quoting Eden Gray in The Tarot Revealed) “Overthrow of existing mods of life.  Conflict, unforeseen catastrophe.  Old notions upset; disruption that may bring enlightenment in its wake...REVERSED: Oppression, inmprisonment...”  The painting on the card shows a tower being struck by lightening with fire raining down and people falling from the windows of the tower.  This is definitely a heavy-duty card and you have to be very careful when it appears in a reading you are doing for someone.

Now, in The Gay Tarot, the card is called “Revelation” and shows the inside of a room with lightening seen flashing in the sky out the open window.  A young man stands in front of an older man and woman who are obviously upset by what the young man is saying.  They are looking away from him as if to try not to hear what he is saying.  I was actually shocked when I first saw this card.  It is the classic Coming-Out-To-Parents scene virtually all of us are very familiar with from personal experience, from stories told by friends, or from media depictions.  It is extremely powerful, and I can not think of a better way to capture the meaning of The Tower.  I discussed this card with others on Aeclectic Tarot.  Some said one need not see it as a coming-out scene, but any situation where surprising difficult news is being learned.  Well, I suppose, but that to my mind robs the scene of its intensity.  I think, if you are gay you get it.  If you aren't, you are missing a lot.  I'm not discounting  women here, I'm really not.  It is just that this particular deck is aimed at gay men.  Many, MANY Tarot decks are aimed specifically at women.  We deserve one of our own.

I suggest that if you are a gay man, and you are just getting into Tarot, get both the Rider-Waite deck and the Gay Tarot deck at the same time, and look at both at the same time as you are becoming familiar with the cards.

Does this help, CD?  I'd be glad to help any way I can
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person.  Give him a mask and he will tell you the truth. ---- Oscar Wilde

Offline CellarDweller

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Re: TAROT IN BETTERMOST?
« Reply #6 on: May 09, 2015, 11:08:50 am »
sounds interesting.  I would probably buy a pack, just to have.


Tell him when l come up to him and ask to play the record, l'm gonna say: ''Voulez-vous jouer ce disque?''
'Voulez-vous, will you kiss my dick?'
Will you play my record? One-track mind!

Offline Jeff Wrangler

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Re: TAROT IN BETTERMOST?
« Reply #7 on: May 11, 2015, 09:19:14 am »
I was in Barnes and Noble on Saturday, and I noticed that there is actually a book called Tarot for Dummies.

 ::)
"It is required of every man that the spirit within him should walk abroad among his fellow-men, and travel far and wide."--Charles Dickens.

Offline x-man

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Re: TAROT IN BETTERMOST?
« Reply #8 on: May 12, 2015, 09:40:42 am »
I was in Barnes and Noble on Saturday, and I noticed that there is actually a book called Tarot for Dummies.

 ::)

Thanks, Jeff.  I just KNEW there had to be a Tarot for Dummies, but I hadn't seen one.  Did you get a chance to check it out?  I'll try up here--it sounds like the sort of thing I should have in my Tarot library.

Oops!  I just checked the Amazon Ca., reviews--It doesn't look promising.  Tarot is NOT an ink-blot test.  One seems to have to take a middle position between the magic and occult crowd and the Freudian freaks.

Boy, am I happy to see you.   :)
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person.  Give him a mask and he will tell you the truth. ---- Oscar Wilde

Offline CellarDweller

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Re: TAROT IN BETTERMOST?
« Reply #9 on: May 12, 2015, 11:37:27 am »
After hearing about that book, I looked for "Ouija For Dummies", but they didn't have one.


They did have this.





Now I wish I had one of those when I was in Catholic school, the nuns would've freaked the hell out!
« Last Edit: June 12, 2017, 10:16:25 pm by CellarDweller »


Tell him when l come up to him and ask to play the record, l'm gonna say: ''Voulez-vous jouer ce disque?''
'Voulez-vous, will you kiss my dick?'
Will you play my record? One-track mind!