Would Jack have quit Ennis?

[Monika]

Hunh, I always hear it as "I can't stand this no more, Jack."  What do other people hear, or know from the screenplay?

I have always assumed that Ennis and Cassie had a sexual relationship. 

You´re right, he says something along those lines. But the meaning is pretty much the same.

[Fran]

This is how the DVD subtitles have it:

[Ellemeno]

Fran, you are the screen capture queen! 

[Brown Eyes]

Did Ennis and Cassie know each other for years in the movie? For how many?
I never got the feeling they knew each other very well or were intimite with each other.
In the story the bottle does suggest that they had sex, but since we were never told in the movie that the bottle was from Cassie, I never made that connection. To me (in the movie) their relationship seems rather new and like Cassie never got much from Ennis - not love, not sex, not much of anything. Maybe it is the lack of that "Alma bitterness" on Cassie´s part that make me doubt that their relationship ever got to that point. If sex had been involved, I feel Cassie would have been much more bitter about Ennis dumping her out of the blue. When I watch the break up scene, Cassie to me seems sad, but not bitter. To me it feels like more she had a huge crush on Ennis and the things she had hoped for never came to be, and thats what she´s upset about.

The shocking thing about both Randall and Cassie is that the relationship Jack had with Randall and that Ennis had with Cassie had to have been going on for 4 or 5 years.  A really long time in both cases.  This issue has come up a lot before, because it can be so shocking to realize.  There's a banner in th Childress dinner dance scene that indicates that that took place in 1978 (is that right... I'm forgetting exactly... it's the late 70s in any case).  Based on the idea that Jack dies in 83, that means that Cassie and Randall have been in the picture for quite a while.  In the film Ennis seems to meet Cassie right around the time that Jack meets Randall.

That's one of the reasons the conversation between J & E during their last camping trip is so surprising... they talk about "some waitress" and the "ranch foreman's wife" as if they've never discussed these people before.

Based on the length of the relationship, I think there's essentially no question that it would have been sexual.  Also, Ennis tells Jack he's having sex with her when he says he's "putting the blocks" to the good looking waitress in Riverton.

Somewhere over in Open Forum there's a long discussion about the nature of the relationship between Cassie and Ennis... and the topic of the late chronology of the story is also discussed in I'm guessing several different threads.

[Fran]

Fran, you are the screen capture queen! 

Thanks, Elle. 

I downloaded something called Capture Me 1.4.1 to grab DVD images from my Mac (and then I crop them at Photobucket).

[Artiste]

Randall and Jack for 4 or 5 years, really ??

[Brown Eyes]

We had a long discussion that involved the consideration of the possibility of the 4 or 5 year length of the relationships that occur between Jack and Randall and Ennis and Cassie in this thread over in Open Forum. Starting around here:
http://bettermost.net/forum/index.php/topic,18655.msg356814.html#msg356814

[Brown Eyes]

Tonight I popped my BBM DVD in and watched the scenes where Ennis meets Cassie and where Jack meets Randall (I didn't watch the whole movie tonight, just these two scene).  I did this mainly because I wanted to look at the banner in the Childress dinner-dance scene to get the date accurate for these discussions.

The scene with Ennis and Cassie comes directly before the scene where Jack meets Randall, suggesting that the two events happen either somewhat simultaneously, or Ennis meets Cassie slightly earlier than Jack meets Randall.  And, the banner at the dance says 1978.  The camera actually zooms in on the banner in the moment between Jack asking LaShawn to dance and the shot where we actually see them on the dance floor.

So, if Jack dies in 1983, that definitely means that the relationships with both Cassie and Randall lasted about 4 or 5 years.

[brokeplex]

Jack had given up on Ennis. The 1983 campfire scene was their farewell as far as Jack was concerned. That to me is the explanation of his memory of the "dozy embrace" and his looks during that memories aftermath, Jack was remembering those wonderful days on the mountain in their youth, and how it was all gone, all irretrievable.

Jack was going to try to bring Randall north to the Twist ranch, otherwise he wouldn't have told OMT about his plans.

Ennis after his conversation with OMT finally fully realizes 3 things:

1) Jack really loved him
2) He really loved Jack
3) Jack was planning to leave him

this is why the Twist ranch closet scene is so deeply emotional, all of the regrets, the shame, the loss, the loneliness of their lives cascade down on Ennis at the same time. That is why I continue to feel in that moment Ennis had a transformational epiphany, he finally connected with his true nature. Too late for Jack, and that is to me the heart of the tragedy of the Brokeback story.

[Artiste]

May I think that you are right brokeplex, by your post !

But not many persons care about that !

At least you and I, and maybe others too care !!