Author Topic: A Ninth Viewing Observation  (Read 151851 times)

Offline welliwont

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Re: A Ninth Viewing Observation
« Reply #240 on: August 13, 2006, 02:24:24 am »
PS, Jane, I just happened to go back and read your recent post with your responses on one of those questionnaires. And I can truthfully say about half of my answers match yours. So:

You are 50 percent right!

(Does that help?  ;) ;) ;))

No, really, I think people agree with you more than you might think.




Hey cool!!  that just makes my day!   :D :D

Thanks Katherine, and let me just say that you too are 50% right!!!   8) 8)  ;D

Cheers!

J
Then the clouds opened up and God said, "I hate you, Alfafa."

Offline Front-Ranger

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Re: A Ninth Viewing Observation
« Reply #241 on: August 15, 2006, 12:28:42 am »
I agree a hunderd percent, Jane, with yr new avatar!! Applause, applause!!
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Offline ednbarby

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Re: A Ninth Viewing Observation
« Reply #242 on: August 15, 2006, 08:12:04 pm »
I agree a hunderd percent, Jane, with yr new avatar!! Applause, applause!!

Yep.  Now that's some logic one would have to be blind not to see.   ;D
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Offline Brown Eyes

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Re: A Ninth Viewing Observation
« Reply #243 on: August 20, 2006, 03:46:49 pm »
I like this discussion condisering Ennis and his "denial" (or lack thereof) on Brokeback vs. life-down-from-the-mountain.  I've always felt like we see Ennis evolve throughout the film.  And sometimes he back slides and sometimes he seems to be taking steps (even baby steps forward).  And sometimes this is a confusing process.  The best example is probably the prayer of thanks camping trip where he seems completely relaxed, happy and willing to "submit to the relationship" (a phrase I remember someone once using to describe his demeanor here...) but then whiplash-fast he changes... sits up, puts the rigid hat on, adopts closed-in body language, tells the Earl story, etc.  So in a way I feel like we're seeing a step forward and a step back here by Ennis.

But, what I really want to say is that I think there are 3 main phases of Ennis.  Brokeback Ennis (free from society), Riverton Ennis (having to deal with society, but Jack is still alive, and available and the comfort that he runs to a few times a year) and then Ennis Post-Jack.  I think the Ennis we see following Jack's death is a hugely different character in many ways.  His evolution is lightning fast.
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Offline dly64

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Re: A Ninth Viewing Observation
« Reply #244 on: August 20, 2006, 04:18:12 pm »
But, what I really want to say is that I think there are 3 main phases of Ennis.  Brokeback Ennis (free from society), Riverton Ennis (having to deal with society, but Jack is still alive, and available and the comfort that he runs to a few times a year) and then Ennis Post-Jack.  I think the Ennis we see following Jack's death is a hugely different character in many ways.  His evolution is lightning fast.

Interesting idea, Amanda. I agree with the division of Ennis' life into three phases. I think the only thing I disagree with is that Ennis’ changes post-Jack are “fast.” There are a few things I see …
1.   Ennis acknowledges the reality that he is gay (but he will remain in the “closet”).
2.   He loves Jack and always will.
3.   He realizes everything he did and what it cost him (i.e. his inability to both “give” of himself and to embrace the one love of his life).   

It is because of this that I see Ennis as becoming withdrawn and embittered. The knowledge of what he could have had, but never having the courage to live a life with Jack, IMO, would haunt him until he died.
Diane

"We're supposed to guard the sheep, not eat 'em."

Offline welliwont

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Re: A Ninth Viewing Observation
« Reply #245 on: August 21, 2006, 02:44:24 am »

It is because of this that I see Ennis as becoming withdrawn and embittered. The knowledge of what he could have had, but never having the courage to live a life with Jack, IMO, would haunt him until he died.


Here is something I slipped in to the "Ennis Questionnaire" or whatever that thing was called.....   I know some of you have seen this already, but it seems apropos here...  Here is Rufus Wainwright's take on Ennis' life after Jack (from an Introduction to his song "The Maker Makes" found on YouTube, the 5:02 minute version):

Rufus Wainwright:
"It's called The Maker Makes 'cause it's, it's just about, it's
it's sorta a, a the flip side of someone who, who instead of
y'now discovering their homosexuality, y'know moves to
NY, and y'now gets y'know a haircut, um, they decide to
sort of stay, where they are and really forsake their uhm,
their sexuality."


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y2Qhec3Lrgg



Then the clouds opened up and God said, "I hate you, Alfafa."

Offline serious crayons

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Re: A Ninth Viewing Observation
« Reply #246 on: August 24, 2006, 02:29:31 pm »
I think the Ennis we see following Jack's death is a hugely different character in many ways.  His evolution is lightning fast.

I agree, Amanda. In every scene after Jack's death, we see Ennis overtly doing things that would have been almost unthinkable earlier: 1) calling Lureen 2) Mentioning Brokeback (to both Lureen and Jack's parents) 3) visiting Jack's parents without worrying too much about what they might "think" 4) not freaking out when he discovers that they not only think, they know 5) saying "I love you" to Jack (I realize this one is arguable) 6) openly taking the shirts, another small coming out 7) using the word "love" to Jr. 8) agreeing to go to Jr.'s wedding.

I may even be forgetting some. The point is, however we interpret his state of mind (accepting his sexuality for the first time or not, accepting the description of love for the first time or not, becoming more embittered or not), he unquestionably does some things he wouldn't have done at any time previous. And to me, they all indicate he's evolving, in a positive way.

Offline dly64

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Re: A Ninth Viewing Observation
« Reply #247 on: August 24, 2006, 05:54:25 pm »
I agree, Amanda. In every scene after Jack's death, we see Ennis overtly doing things that would have been almost unthinkable earlier: 1) calling Lureen 2) Mentioning Brokeback (to both Lureen and Jack's parents) 3) visiting Jack's parents without worrying too much about what they might "think" 4) not freaking out when he discovers that they not only think, they know 5) saying "I love you" to Jack (I realize this one is arguable) 6) openly taking the shirts, another small coming out 7) using the word "love" to Jr. 8) agreeing to go to Jr.'s wedding.

I may even be forgetting some. The point is, however we interpret his state of mind (accepting his sexuality for the first time or not, accepting the description of love for the first time or not, becoming more embittered or not), he unquestionably does some things he wouldn't have done at any time previous. And to me, they all indicate he's evolving, in a positive way.

Okay, okay! I see your logic and I can agree.

BTW - (a bit OT) - It occurred to me earlier this week that in my multiple viewings of BBM, I have never cried during the film. I have cried when I have listened to the soundtrack. I have cried when I have seen clips played to music (like on YouTube). However, I never shed a tear during the movie itself.  I found that realization a bit odd because I am one who is notorious for crying at the drop of a hat. (Yes, I am one of those saps who can cry over a TV commercial!  :-\)  I tend to think that BBM has hit me so deeply that it has taken me to a place beyond tears. The painful scenes are extremely hard to watch because I almost feel that I am going through everything Jack and/or Ennis are. By the end of the film, I am spent. I find myself sitting there until the last credit has rolled and the last note of “Maker Makes” has been played. Am I the only one who has felt this way?

Diane

"We're supposed to guard the sheep, not eat 'em."

Offline serious crayons

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Re: A Ninth Viewing Observation
« Reply #248 on: August 25, 2006, 01:50:41 am »
Am I the only one who has felt this way?

Well, I cry during the film, but I think I see what you mean -- maybe it's too important to place in the same category as sappy TV commercials, therefore you feel you can't react to it the same way?

BTW, here's something weird:

7) using the word "love" to Jr. 8) agreeing to go to Jr.'s wedding.

I looked back at that message and wondered why on earth, instead of putting in the number 8 (to indicate the 8th thing in the series), I would insert the shades-wearing smiley? Then I realized: if you type an 8, immediately followed by a ), you are typing the code for that smiley!

 :laugh:

Offline dly64

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Re: A Ninth Viewing Observation
« Reply #249 on: August 25, 2006, 10:29:47 am »
I looked back at that message and wondered why on earth, instead of putting in the number 8 (to indicate the 8th thing in the series), I would insert the shades-wearing smiley? Then I realized: if you type an 8, immediately followed by a ), you are typing the code for that smiley!

 :laugh:

Too funny! I wondered what was up with that smiley ....
Diane

"We're supposed to guard the sheep, not eat 'em."