Author Topic: A Ninth Viewing Observation  (Read 130497 times)

Offline Monika

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Re: A Ninth Viewing Observation
« Reply #310 on: December 04, 2009, 01:52:10 am »
It just seemed so abrupt, like he gave up so quickly.  I wonder why he did not say "are you kidding me?" or somehting to that effect, but I guess it had to be feelings he saved for that big blowup argument later on the mountain.  It was really heartbreaking.  The contrast of him singing in the car on the way up and then crying on the way back - so gut wrenching. 
I think it´s a genereal theme between them that they don´t talk about things. There is so much that is unsaid between them.



Offline Penthesilea

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Re: A Ninth Viewing Observation
« Reply #311 on: December 04, 2009, 04:13:14 am »
I think it´s a genereal theme between them that they don´t talk about things. There is so much that is unsaid between them.

Like vast clouds of steam from thermal springs in winter the years of things unsaid and now unsayable - admissions, declarations, shames, guilts, fears - rose around them.

Offline Monika

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Re: A Ninth Viewing Observation
« Reply #312 on: December 04, 2009, 10:05:52 am »
Like vast clouds of steam from thermal springs in winter the years of things unsaid and now unsayable - admissions, declarations, shames, guilts, fears - rose around them.

that was exactly the line from the book I was thinking about :) I was too lazy to go and look it up


The sene when they fight by the lake, was the first time they spoke about a lot of things.
Ironically that´s the beginning to the end for them.

Offline Brown Eyes

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Re: A Ninth Viewing Observation
« Reply #313 on: December 04, 2009, 11:50:00 am »
The whole topic of communication and talking together is so fascinating.  It's a double-edged and convoluted thing in BBM.

Because, it seems that a major element of the attraction initially between Jack and Ennis (on the friend level and romantic level) was that Jack was able to get Ennis to talk and to smile/laugh.  So much is made of the wonderful "most I've spoke in a year" scene.  Clearly that conversation is a big moment in their early attraction.

And, then... Ennis's funny excuse to Alma about staying out all night at the time of the reunion... "when we get to drinkin and talkin and all..." is so ironic.

They do talk... and seem to easily loosen up together.  The motel scene is mostly about talking (and intimacy).  But, somehow they don't communicate about important things in their own relationship.   Or when they do... it leads to tension.  Almost every conversation when the topic turns to their relationship, things get tense.  The "what are we going to do now?" question by Jack in the motel makes the mood there instantly heavier.  The cow and calf suggestion totally changes the mood of the reunion camping trip.   The "maybe Texas" conversation leads to a fight and to Jack stomping off.  And, of course the big fight by the lake is the biggest example of this tension probably.

I think the divorce scene and the totally screwed up lack of communication when Jack and Ennis come off the mountain at the end of the 63 summer are the most difficult.

I'm sure this is bound up with the closeted nature of their relationship.

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Offline Monika

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Re: A Ninth Viewing Observation
« Reply #314 on: December 04, 2009, 12:02:46 pm »


I'm sure this is bound up with the closeted nature of their relationship.


I´m no expert on Wyoming, but men probably weren´t supposed to speak about their feelings. I think that´s how both men were raised so it´s no wonder they never did.
They do talk, like you point out, but seemingly mostly about stuff that any friends could talk about.
Most of their feelings are hidden beneath the surface, sometimes they pop up with a terrible force that is caused by all that time being pushed down.

Offline tango

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Re: A Ninth Viewing Observation
« Reply #315 on: December 04, 2009, 12:37:19 pm »
I am reminded by a few things in the short story. The first where Ennis and Jack spent the evening by the fire, laughing and talking and then when Ennis was riding back up to tend the sheep overnight, he thought he'd never had such a good time. I think that spoke about their ease with one another and how appealing it must have been to Ennis to make a connection like that with another person. I always thought they were able to talk to each other and share as long as it wasn't about the two of them as a couple because that situation was just ripe with disapointment and fear. How many times could any of us feel good about telling someone we love (even if we don't admit to ourselves that it's love) that we can't give them what they need? How many times would we on the receiving end want to hear that what we want and need will not be given? So it's easier to avoid the whole subject rather than deal with that pain.

Also, in the short story, Ennis called Jack on the telephone to tell him about the divorce. So of course, it seems reasonable that Jack saw the call as very important and meaningful since all their previous conversation was done via mail.  I always wondered if it wasn't just a misunderstanding on Jacks part, but Ennis might have mislead him some way too in that call and between the call and Jacks arrival, changed his mind or had it changed for him because of the responsibility to his children. 


Offline Front-Ranger

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Re: A Ninth Viewing Observation
« Reply #316 on: February 19, 2012, 08:35:07 pm »
Tonight I needed a Brokeback fix. So, I took out my raggedy copy of the story, xeroxed from the New Yorker, leafed through it, pointed to a passage, and read it:

"Alma," he said. "Jack and me is goin out and get a drink. Might not get back tonight, we get drinkin and talkin."

When he said this, Ennis and Jack were standing on a floorboard at the entry of his apartment, and Ennis could feel the vibration of Jack shaking {trembling like a wrung out horse) through the floor. Don't you just love the way Ennis uses the singular verb is instead of the plural are? And how he drops all his g's because he's in such a hurry to get away? hehe! I'm bumping what Amanda said about this way back in 2009:

The whole topic of communication and talking together is so fascinating.  It's a double-edged and convoluted thing in BBM.

Because, it seems that a major element of the attraction initially between Jack and Ennis (on the friend level and romantic level) was that Jack was able to get Ennis to talk and to smile/laugh.  So much is made of the wonderful "most I've spoke in a year" scene.  Clearly that conversation is a big moment in their early attraction.

And, then... Ennis's funny excuse to Alma about staying out all night at the time of the reunion... "when we get to drinkin and talkin and all..." is so ironic.

They do talk... and seem to easily loosen up together.  The motel scene is mostly about talking (and intimacy).  But, somehow they don't communicate about important things in their own relationship.   Or when they do... it leads to tension.  Almost every conversation when the topic turns to their relationship, things get tense.  The "what are we going to do now?" question by Jack in the motel makes the mood there instantly heavier.  The cow and calf suggestion totally changes the mood of the reunion camping trip.   The "maybe Texas" conversation leads to a fight and to Jack stomping off.  And, of course the big fight by the lake is the biggest example of this tension probably.

I think the divorce scene and the totally screwed up lack of communication when Jack and Ennis come off the mountain at the end of the 63 summer are the most difficult.

I'm sure this is bound up with the closeted nature of their relationship.


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Offline Shakesthecoffecan

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Re: A Ninth Viewing Observation
« Reply #317 on: February 20, 2012, 01:17:40 pm »
You know I can't remember when the last time was I watched Brokeback, but I can remember what happened, it went like this:

Ennis: You and Lureen, it's normal and all?

Rufus: One more chain I break!

I had fell asleep.  :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
"It was only you in my life, and it will always be only you, Jack, I swear."

Offline Sason

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Re: A Ninth Viewing Observation
« Reply #318 on: February 20, 2012, 02:02:03 pm »
Those are some very interesting observations by Amanda.

Thanks for bumping them, Lee.

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Offline ifyoucantfixit

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Re: A Ninth Viewing Observation
« Reply #319 on: February 20, 2012, 04:44:46 pm »
Tango
Also, in the short story, Ennis called Jack on the telephone to tell him about the divorce. So of course, it seems reasonable that Jack saw the call as very important and meaningful since all their previous conversation was done via mail.  I always wondered if it wasn't just a misunderstanding on Jacks part, but Ennis might have mislead him some way too in that call and between the call and Jacks arrival, changed his mind or had it changed for him because of the responsibility to his children.
-------------------------------------------------------------

That was the part of the movie, that never quite worked for me too.  It was kind of a, (what the hell happened here kind of thing.)  That whole scene didn't quite work to me.  Why would Jack drive all the way up there, if he wasn't pretty sure of the outcome?  It was just an unexplainable occurrence to me.  Poor Jack, it was the one place where I got kind of angry at one of them..



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