A Ninth Viewing Observation

[Brown Eyes]

Bumping on a whim.  I noticed a guest looking at this thread through the "who's online" function and I became nostalgic.

[Front-Ranger]

Thanks for bumping, friend!!

[Brown Eyes]

I was just looking at the following Jack picture that Buffymon posted over in the JJJ thread a while ago:



And, I was struck by how prominently the wedding ring on his hand stands out.  It kind of jumps out at me more than I'd ever thought about before.  I wonder if this is a bookend - of sorts - to the motel scene where Ennis's wedding ring is so prominent.  This is certainly a "stuck with what I've got here" moment of disillusionment for Jack.

I just thought I'd throw this out there to see what folks think.

[serious crayons]

Wow, I like it! Both the idea you presented and the fact that you're still coming up with observations after the ninth ninety-ninth viewing ...

[Penthesilea]

I was just looking at the following Jack picture that Buffymon posted over in the JJJ thread a while ago:



And, I was struck by how prominently the wedding ring on his hand stands out.  It kind of jumps out at me more than I'd ever thought about before.  I wonder if this is a bookend - of sorts - to the motel scene where Ennis's wedding ring is so prominent.  This is certainly a "stuck with what I've got here" moment of disillusionment for Jack.

I just thought I'd throw this out there to see what folks think.

Yes, the scenes mirror each other. They're similar in some ways, but completely opposite in others.
At the motel scene, they hadn't seen each other for four effing years - at the miss you so much scene, they had been together-apart for almost 20 years.

Motel scene (MS): both naked - Miss you so much scene (MYSMS): completely dressed, even with jackets 'n all (think of the layer-theory).

MS: touching each other from head to toe, you barely can get any closer thant that (but they managed it just shortly before we catch a glimpse ) - MYSMS: sitting apart

In both scenes, they don't look at each other at the same time. Instead, they mostly look in front of them.
In both scenes, they're sharing a cigarette/joint and whiskey (even if we don't see it in the movie).
In both scenes a wedding band is prominently seen (Ennis's in MS and Jack's in MYSMS).
"    "      "       Jack is doing the talking, mostly.
                     they're talking about their relationship (indirectly)

In the earlier scene, Ennis strokes Jack's arm, in the the later scene, Ennis only looks at Jack (movie only), who misses the look.

Comparing the two scenes, you can so clearly see the toll time and the circumstances took on them and their relationship, it's hard to bear. What makes the later scene easier though, is the following look into the tent. This short glimpse is a much needed relief and reassurement!

[Brown Eyes]

Yes, the scenes mirror each other. They're similar in some ways, but completely opposite in others.
At the motel scene, they hadn't seen each other for four effing years - at the miss you so much scene, they had been together-apart for almost 20 years.

Motel scene (MS): both naked - Miss you so much scene (MYSMS): completely dressed, even with jackets 'n all (think of the layer-theory).

MS: touching each other from head to toe, you barely can get any closer thant that (but they managed it just shortly before we catch a glimpse ) - MYSMS: sitting apart

In both scenes, they don't look at each other at the same time. Instead, they mostly look in front of them.
In both scenes, they're sharing a cigarette/joint and whiskey (even if we don't see it in the movie).
In both scenes a wedding band is prominently seen (Ennis's in MS and Jack's in MYSMS).
"    "      "       Jack is doing the talking, mostly.
                     they're talking about their relationship (indirectly)

In the earlier scene, Ennis strokes Jack's arm, in the the later scene, Ennis only looks at Jack (movie only), who misses the look.

Comparing the two scenes, you can so clearly see the toll time and the circumstances took on them and their relationship, it's hard to bear. What makes the later scene easier though, is the following look into the tent. This short glimpse is a much needed relief and reassurement!

Thanks for this Chrissi.  I agree with you that there is a lot to contrast between the motel scene and this late lake scene.  And, I also agree that the two scenes speak to very different stages of their relationship and the various hardships of each moment.  There's clearly more physical intimacy in the motel scene and that scene is filled with a sense of relief and pleasure in each other's company, etc.... I'd say the pleasant mood is maintained up until the moment when Ennis says "I'm stuck with what I got here."  Then, to me at least, the mood of the motel scene changes and Jack becomes quiet and his face kind of falls.  To me, that's one of the saddest lines in the movie, and throws a damper on the motel mood.

The whole mood of this late lake scene is different and more melancholy/ resigned to begin with (again that's how I perceive it).  And, it's Jack's utterance of the famous "I miss you so much..." line that seems to alter the whole mood of their conversation.  In this case, both Ennis and Jack are "stuck" still (in their various circumstances)... but this time it's Jack's ring rather than Ennis's (which he no longer has) that remains part of the visual equation.  And, in a way, I think they're both already exasperated with each other (as a prelude to the fight to come... and maybe Jack is already more exasperated and frustrated than Ennis here)... which, isn't something they were probably experiencing at all in the motel scene.  I think the motel scene is still a moment of extreme optimism for Jack, since his cow and calf operation hasn't even been rejected yet.

Yeah, I think often bookends aren't meant to be exactly the same and sometimes they're mirror opposites.  And, I think it's interesting that this lake scene can be interpreted that way with the motel scene.

[southendmd]

Good observations.  I wanted to add something, related to sadness.

In both scenes, Jack "puts himself out there" to Ennis, and in both cases, doesn't get a response. 

In the motel, Jack asks Ennis, "What about you?" and he essentially doesn't reply.  "Me.....I don't know..."

In the lake scene, Jack says the "miss you so much, I can hardly stand it" (awfully close to "I love you"), and Ennis is again speechless.

[Sason]

Interesting discussion.

One other thing:

In the motel scene, when Ennis says "I'm kinda stuck with what I got here", there is at least some kind of sense to it. After all he does have a wife a 2 small kids.
Jack might be sad and disappointed, but he isn't bitter, and he still has hopes.

In the lake scene, there is no sensible reason that Ennis could claim, so he keeps quiet. I think that's a lot worse to Jack. There is no reason for it any more, but Ennis still doesn't come along. My impression of Jack here, is that of total desillusion and bitterness. After this scene, I don't think he had any more hopes.

[Brown Eyes]

I agree with your interpretation of Jack here at the end/ late lake scene.  I think disillusionment is probably one of the key issues here for him at this point.

I don't know if I agree that Ennis still had hope in the motel scene.  I don't think he was happy at all with his everyday life.  He loved his daughters, but he seemed pretty miserable in a lot of ways beyond that.  And, I also don't think he had any expectations, even at that early stage and even at a moment of happiness (in the motel with Jack), that the relationship with Jack would develop into anything like what Jack hoped for.  I don't think Ennis ever really thought or believed that he'd be able to build a real life with Jack... as much as he probably would haved liked to deep down.

[Sason]

I didn't mean that Ennis had hopes in the motel scene. I meant that Jack had.

Apart from that I agree with you re Ennis. I don't think that the idea of building a life with Jack
ever even occured to him.
He might have wished he could see Jack more often, but having a life with him? No, that wasn't
within Ennis's frame of reference.

I don't think Ennis married Alma and wanted to stay with her just out of convention. I think he really
wanted to have a family, what he had been bereft of at too early an age.