Mandatory Viewing

[JennyC]

Let me make sure that we all agree that critiquing MM’s way to deliver the argument he made in F-911, does not mean to critique the point itself.  If you are anti war, you secretly hope that everything in the movie is true or at least the conclusion is a logical one based on facts presented.  If you are conservative or pro-war (right or left does not guarantee your stand on this issue), you watch that movie as a joke.  In the end, I don’t know anyone’s position has been changed on the issue, at least not the people that I know of.  People who feel strongly on this issue on both sides can take the movie however they want.  Me and my very devoted democrat friend used to joke about how MM went over the board trying to frame Bush as this bad guy with his dirty secrets, and it almost made people feel sympathetic for him (Bush) since he is the underdog in the movie and MM took every chance he got to beat him in the head. 

To me, whether it’s Democrat or Republican, they don’t change that much on their foreign policy.  Whether it’s Mideast, East Asia, Africa, or South America, you name it, pretty much the entire world.  On a few events they may differ, but in the whole scheme of things, sorry to say that they stay on the same course once they are in the office.

I will say though, when one man with strong conviction believes so firmly what he/she believes, believes that whatever he/she does is for the greater good, therefore being blind sighted by his/her own conviction, it’s a very dangerous thing.  Particularly if that person is in a powerful position to make decisions that could impact a lot of people’s life.  It does not necessarily take an evil person to cause horrible damage.

[rtprod]

BTW, your posts are so insightful, RT, I love them. It's certainly not hard to tell you're a writer.

 

Lastly, you have all brought up some great films. One that I think people should see: The Sea Inside (Mar adentro): The real-life story of Spaniard Ramon Sampedro, who fought a 30 year campaign in favor of euthanasia and his own right to die. Beautifully done, just beautiful. And so moving.

Agree -- the shot of his nephew running after the ambulance at the end of the film tore me up.  The title -- The Sea Inside -- is so eloquent, layered and deep.  It's a really special film. 

rt

[JennyC]

I don't think they or he make liberals look bad - I think they make them look passionate and driven.

Politics is such a delicate act; it’s hard to tell at what time you tip the balance from being passionate and driven to over your head.  I look back on the 2004 Democrat Primary how Howard Dean lost the primary because of his famous passionate speech.  I always like the guy, feel that he had the guts to voice his dissent on the war at the time when everyone who disagreed with the administration had been labeled as unpatriotic (People should be sent to boot camp to watch Good Night and Good Luck  ). But at the same time, I do feel he acts before he thinks through things from time to time.  I don’t know if he can be a leader that you can count on.

[delalluvia]

Hi Mandy,

Yes, he's dramatic and sometimes over the top, but isn't that the point? He clearly feels strongly about both topics and thus explores them passionately in both movies.

Is it the point of a documentary?  To be over the top and biased?

If the movies had just been him being calm and quiet, sitting on his couch discussing his POV unenthusiastically into the camera, would that have been better? Certainly not, in my opinion.

That's not what a good documentary filmmaker would show you.  I've watched a lot of 9/11 documentaries.  I'm not expecting to be 'entertained'.  I'm expecting to get good information.  That's not really what you get with MM.

I don't think they or he make liberals look bad - I think they make them look passionate and driven.

That's not necessarily a good thing.  I call and people have called Dubya 'passionate and driven'.  As Jenny pointed out so well, people who are passionate and driven can also be stuck in a rut and over emotional and ultimately dangerous if their passions and drives conflict with others.

[delalluvia]

I don't take everything he says as 100% accurate, and I will read critiques of his movies.  Skimming through the link posted (the Dave Kopel one), many of the rebuttals boil down to "both sides do this, not just Bush", although I don't think Moore is so fond of Democrats either.  I did idealize him more before F911, but after reading some criticisms of Bowling For Columbine, I readjusted my expectations and try to be more discerning.

Exactly.  The rebuttal was about MM's 'pot calling the kettle black', why wasn't MM making movies during the Clinton administration about Clinton when the same things were going on, etc..  Sadly, not everyone is as analytical as you are Juan.  People like to take things at face value.

I've gotten to the point where I'm a skeptic about anything that comes out of anyone's mouth until I know better.

It's a shame because you used to be able to trust your news agencies.  Or at least you thought you could.

[JennyC]

I am just bumping some old threads for the new members here.  Hope you enjoy reading it.

[Aloysius J. Gleek]

And bumping with an old (rusty) member--

Something I think many will really feel 'Mandatory Viewing' (and something I think, Barb, you will love):

IMDb: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0119248/

'Steam' (1998), directed by Ferzan Ozpetek
(also known as)
'Steam: The Turkish Bath' (1998)
'Hamam' (1997)
Bagno turco, Il (Italy)
Hamam: The Turkish Bath (UK)
Hamam: el baño turco (Spain)

Actors: Alessandro Gassman (gorgeous), Francesca d'Aloja, Carlo Cecchi, Halil Ergün, Serif
Sezer, Mehmet Gunsur (more gorgeousness), and more--

I've added this User Comments:

4 out of 4 people found the following comment useful:-
Find your place in life -- mesmerizing!, 3 July 2002

Author: Tim Evanson ([email protected]) from Washington, D.C.


An official selection of the Cannes Film Festival, "Steam (The Hamam)" is a mesmerizing, astounding film that grips you almost from the beginning. Francesco and Marta are a feuding, materialistic, adulterous married couple. But when Francesco inherits a Turkish bath from an aunt he barely knew, he heads to Instanbul to sell it. There, he is seduced away from his high-tech, wealth-obsessed life by the slow, human pace of life led by the people of the ghetto. Francesco finds his bitterness salved by the love of the family who manages the hamam, his heart stolen by the family's hunky son Mehmet, and his too-fast life slowed by the need to rebuild and maintain the hamam. And then Marta arrives, wondering what the heck has gotten into her husband... The film even has a surprise ending. The musical soundtrack was a major hit on the dance circuit. And the film itself became notorious when the Turkish government refused to nominate it for a best foreign film Oscar because of its homosexual content. (The controversy led the Academy to change the way foreign films are nominated.) "Steam" is MUST-see, ranking right up there with "Muriel's Wedding" and "Four Weddings and a Funeral."

John G again: my own words are inadequate because I am still unable to write very well, but I think you will love this movie: sad, beautiful, shocking; I loved this movie more than I can say--

xxxx
John

[ednbarby]

[bumpin' right back atcha]

John, my love, I've seen this movie.  And you're right.  I did love it!  And I agree that it falls in the "Mandatory Viewing" category as well.

How goes it with you these days, by the way?  I think of you often and hope you're doing well.   

[starboardlight]

And bumping with an old (rusty) member--

Something I think many will really feel 'Mandatory Viewing' (and something I think, Barb, you will love):

IMDb: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0119248/

'Steam' (1998), directed by Ferzan Ozpetek
(also known as)
'Steam: The Turkish Bath' (1998)
'Hamam' (1997)
Bagno turco, Il (Italy)
Hamam: The Turkish Bath (UK)
Hamam: el baño turco (Spain)

Actors: Alessandro Gassman (gorgeous), Francesca d'Aloja, Carlo Cecchi, Halil Ergün, Serif
Sezer, Mehmet Gunsur (more gorgeousness), and more--

I've added this User Comments:

4 out of 4 people found the following comment useful:-
Find your place in life -- mesmerizing!, 3 July 2002

Author: Tim Evanson ([email protected]) from Washington, D.C.


An official selection of the Cannes Film Festival, "Steam (The Hamam)" is a mesmerizing, astounding film that grips you almost from the beginning. Francesco and Marta are a feuding, materialistic, adulterous married couple. But when Francesco inherits a Turkish bath from an aunt he barely knew, he heads to Instanbul to sell it. There, he is seduced away from his high-tech, wealth-obsessed life by the slow, human pace of life led by the people of the ghetto. Francesco finds his bitterness salved by the love of the family who manages the hamam, his heart stolen by the family's hunky son Mehmet, and his too-fast life slowed by the need to rebuild and maintain the hamam. And then Marta arrives, wondering what the heck has gotten into her husband... The film even has a surprise ending. The musical soundtrack was a major hit on the dance circuit. And the film itself became notorious when the Turkish government refused to nominate it for a best foreign film Oscar because of its homosexual content. (The controversy led the Academy to change the way foreign films are nominated.) "Steam" is MUST-see, ranking right up there with "Muriel's Wedding" and "Four Weddings and a Funeral."

John G again: my own words are inadequate because I am still unable to write very well, but I think you will love this movie: sad, beautiful, shocking; I loved this movie more than I can say--

xxxx
John

I really love that movie. It depicts such a romantic view of Istanbul and puts the city on my list of places to visit. And the soundtrack CD is beautiful, a must own for people who love world music. Despite being a hit in the dance world, it's not dance music. It's a very old world sound but very sexy and aching rhythm.

[silkncense]

I'd been wondering if I should join a movie service such as Netflix, questioning if I knew enough great films to make a large enough que.  Well, after reading all these suggestions I've found many I have not seen.  I trust I will find many more movies to love.