Didn't any boy cry? This girl certainly did...

[Scott6373]

To answer the query of this thread.  Boys do cry.  Trust me.

[Lumière]

Scott - Your story broke my heart .. So sorry that something like that happened to you. 

When I was 17, right before I left home, burglars broke into our home and one of them put a gun to my head, and repeatedly said he was going to rape and shoot me and whatever else.  I figured I was dead.  Must've been a miracle of God he didn't actually rape me or use the gun .. Talk about trauma after that .. 


On the issue of capital punishment, I don't think anything is accomplished by killing the killer, since it does not undo the act ..although the victim(s) might be vindicated. I dont know .. it is a gray issue .. I'll have to think some more about it, I guess.

[serious crayons]

Oh, Scott, it makes me so sad to hear about that experience.

The hypothetical situation you present is tough. Even if this technically qualifies as "unnecessary" violence, I can't help thinking of it differently from a moral perspective. After all, if you'd killed them earlier, it would have been perfectly legitimate self-defense. I would think any reasonable jury would let you off with a light sentence, at worst.

But exacting revenge on someone immediately after being brutally assaulted by that person is way different from the government doing the avenging. In other words, I'd give you permission to kill them long before I'd give the state of Texas permission to kill them, however much they deserved it.

[Jeff Wrangler]

Oh, Scott. ...   

[delalluvia]

I agree with Jeff here.  Killing people who kill people to show that killing people is wrong, is not the answer. It doesn't even make sense. Of course, I don't know if I'm going to feel different about it if I or somebody I love is raped, or killed, but right now I don't see the logic in it.  Capital punishment exist since forever and to this date it hasn't stopped people from killing people.

Howdy y'all.  Yep, I'm from Texas and support capital punishment as some of you already know from other threads.  I don't see it as 'killing people who kill people to show that killing people is wrong', I don't look at it as 'what good will it do Brandon/Teena?', I look at it as taking a very dangerous conscienceless person out of society where he will never be able to do that again to anyone.  That's what's behind my idea of capital punishment.  A very dangerous person has been taken permanently out of society.

You can't be sure he won't get out of prison in the future accidentally.  Mistakes happen.  In Texas, Kenneth McDuff - a fucking animal who deserved to die - through a series of serendipitous events in the Texas prison system got released when he had previously been sentenced to die for earlier just horrible heinous crimes - go here if you want to read about them

http://www.geocities.com/verbal_plainfield/i-p/mcduff.html

Yep, he got out and went on another killing spree.

Life in prison means nothing in Texas.  They are eligible for the most part for parole at some time.

Capital punishment solves this problem.

In jail?  Hmmm, yeah that guy may be treated badly or he may be respected for taking out a 'bitch'.  That's what they do in prison don't they?  Cold blooded murderers have a degree of respect in prison.  He'll probably be among more people who think just like him.

Prison will solve nothing for him, will not change his mind, his attitude or give him a conscience.

[isabelle]

Hi Del,

After reading what you say, I still think that I could totally understand the victim (of a rape) killing their agressor, because at least there would be no confusion as to the real culprit.One of the HUGE downsides of capital punishment is that someone else does the vengeance (the state), and from what I know, quite a few innocents have been executed...

[Kelda]

Oh Scott... wow.

You are in the un-enviable position of being able to see this from a non hypothetical situation.

I have to say - I have no stong opinion either way - as I jut find that its a very hard subject to make a decision over.

Is this 'an eye for an eye' take really moral? Or are we just getting rid of the bad eggs in society, so we can function better and that makes it better? Should we give everyone a second chance? and what if a mistake is made - there is no way back from death.

I'm inclined to think if something happened to me or my family/friends - I would be much more opinionated. Most of us here are lucky not to be in that position.

[delalluvia]

Hi Del,

After reading what you say, I still think that I could totally understand the victim (of a rape) killing their agressor, because at least there would be no confusion as to the real culprit.One of the HUGE downsides of capital punishment is that someone else does the vengeance (the state), and from what I know, quite a few innocents have been executed...

I know of no system that is perfect Isabelle.  We don't know how many innocent people were put to death, just as we don't know how many innocent people were sent to prison for the rest of their lives for crimes they didn't commit.  Sadly, even the victims and "eyewitnesses" to crimes have been mistaken and sent innocent men to jail.

If we waited for a perfect system so that no innocent would ever accidentally be punished, we'd never have a justice system.  Even now, DNA testing is releasing prisoner after prisoner who were sentenced for crimes they didn't commit.  In the USA, more and more laws are being passed so that all prisoners especially those on death row have their cases reviewed to see if DNA can substantiate or overturn their convictions.  Death row inmates have a process of many many appeals.

It's not an easy sentence to pass on someone.  Most people would like to give the benefit of the doubt to someone, but more and more, it's becoming obvious that there is something wrong with some people, serial killers, rapists, child molesters/murderers.  There is no 'curing' them.  They are driven by some compulsion and will not stop.

Someone famous once said something like, 'It's better that 9 guilty men go free than have 1 innocent person jailed'.  Of course, that was said back in the day when communities were smaller and people didn't have atomic weapons and one person flying a plane could conceivable kill over 10,000 people with one act.

What price is society is willing to pay in lives to give such criminals the gift of their lives?   



I'm

[serious crayons]

If we waited for a perfect system so that no innocent would ever accidentally be punished, we'd never have a justice system.

True, but the same could be said in reverse for a system without capital punishment. If we waited for a perfect system so that no guilty person would ever accidentally be freed, we'd never have a justice system. But at least we wouldn't be doing the killing ourselves.

Someone famous once said something like, 'It's better that 9 guilty men go free than have 1 innocent person jailed'.  Of course, that was said back in the day when communities were smaller and people didn't have atomic weapons and one person flying a plane could conceivable kill over 10,000 people with one act.

True, but that's not a description of most people on death row. The guy whose case you referred to killed someone with a broomstick.

[Sheriff Roland]

Though Truman certainly brought realism ta the equation, it still remains an archaic system of metting out justice, one that has been rejected by most civilized nations. In just how many countries is execution still bein discussed - where capital punishment still exists?

C'mon people, move on up to the 20 th century. You'll only be a couple a decades behind the rest a the world.

Killing is wrong. State sanctioned killing is worse.