Jake's father was a gay man?

[Artiste]

Thanks brokebackjack!!

If John Twist was and is a homosexual (gay man), is a reasonable and maybe provable question!!??

It is an important question for me!!

And surely to many or some others... I think!!

I do not know why you think that, nor if only that (your comment)!!

Awaiting your news,

hugs!!

[brokebackjack]

Artiste, i think that with the facts as we know thgem, in both SS and film, it's virtually impossible to say anything EXCEPT the following:

John Twist was a Dick.

He was miserable, cold, vicious; in the book there the tone of how Mrs twist moves leads ME to believe he was a wife beater. He was a child abuser. he was, all in all, one of the most miserably memorable characters ever written.

But gay? I see nothing to imply he was gay except for one line which can be taken 2 ways:

"I know where BBM is."
1--either he knew where BBM was and could bring the ashes himself

or

2--he'd had gay sex thereand/or knew about gay sex.

That latter assumes that the average cowpoke was willing to get poked by Satan himself. I refuse to believe that as the average cowpoke who likes men tends to  have better taste.Also, Wyoming cowboys who like guys tend NOT to be very kinky....least the ones I know. Kinkiest Wyo cowboy I know thinks he's BAAAAD because he likes to do it in the water. John Twist--according to another one I know personally--was likened to impaling oneself on a " a nasty Bull and go tell that tale, I'd rather do a sheep."

Me/ I think he was A Dick. There is none but slight evidence that he was gay. I never thought that. I DO think he wascompletely repulsive, AND a .....

[Front-Ranger]

One thing that struck me tonite...Jack was playing his harmonica, even though it was flattened. And he came from Lightning Flat. But the flattening things that had happened in his life did not deter him from following his dream and going to Brokeback Mountain.

...and he died, his wife said, while pumping up a flat tire.

[Artiste]

Thanks brokebbackjack!!

I appreciate your reply, very much!!

Not only are you talking if he was or not a gay man, you are raising many questions about Mr. John Twist!! Am glad that you are!!

1. First of all, you call Mr. John Twist: a dick!! Capital D: Dick!! Wow, wow!! You express this stating that your are very, very negatif against him!! You surprise me with this name: Dick!! You give me some ideas and/or proofs as to that... yes. Just still puzzled as to why you express so vehemently that!!?? You are venting that?? I am happy that you know about him!!

2. I am glad that you are giving me clues about such a person or that person (Mr. Dick)!! I do not know that much yet about Mr. John Twist. Happy that you are quoting or decide that he could very well be many things... too!!

I agree with you that John Twist was miserable!! Even, very sad, if I may add??

However, was he a monster?? Was he liike some monsters who kill many gay men (or straights men), youths and/or boys, and/or women?? He was likely not a mass murder, thank goodness!!

You qualify John Twist as cold!! There seems to be only two evidence of that?? And what is cold?

And you say too vicious!! Wow, wow!! That is harsh!! Likely one or more evidence of  that too?? To qualify vicious like what?? He did not kill... but he was a wife-beater?? Could be... any evidence of wife-beating?? You give an example already!! Movie seems to show that, Annie's book too??

As to John Twist being a child abuser, I wonder about that too.

It would be great to get advice from experts here. And also to get sample cases. And how to help such person, if possible.

There is maybe a lack of respect by Mr. John Twist towards Ennis, (and maybe same time towards Mrs. Twist) that we think as viewers, when we see Ennis sees for the first time Mr. and Mrs. John Twist after Jack's death!! ?? At least, this seems evident maybe in the movie!!

Indeed you are right that Mr. John Twist is a memorable character!! All those negatives about him you mention, is impressive too! I did not mean to answer that long. Will answer more... if you like when you want me too do so; just remind me.

For now, am surprised that I wrote this much; again, thanks, and I await your comments, keep care,

hugs!!

[brokebackjack]

Well--let me see: a Dick is a term used in the US to describe an all around...dick. A louse. miserable. no good. etc.

in the SS Mrs Twist moves slowly, like someone recovering from an operation. In the context, most think she was an abused wife. Some do not. However the majority seem to believe this.

Any man who urinates on a 4 year old to teach him a lesson is both  a child abuser and completely disgusting on a global scale of child abuse. John Twist is a proven and remarkably repulsive sadist. For the same man to make that 4 year old put on the pajamas which were removed from him so he could CLEAN UP THE URINE at age 4 or any age is an abomination which to my mind makes John Twist EARN the sobriquet 'DICK' as the most minor thing one can call him .

I may be wrong but your syntax seems French. Have you heard, and understood the tone of voice and manner John Twist uses towards EDM in the English version? [I may be wrong but I smell the blooming chestnuts of April in Paris from the phrasing of your reply LOL Forgive if I'm wrong here! Vive la France!]

His behaviour towards EDM is so horrific that even in the script, the screenwriters say Ennis cannot get away from this terrible old man fast enough.

Last but not least, there are  enough  people around combining gay person [which is fine] with repulsive gay person[ which is not fine]. I would  like to spare the gay men of the planet having John Twist numbered among them. They do not deserve it. Nor do straight people, but the alternatives are bisexual--which, as a bisexual, I  refuse to contemplate or accept lol--lesbian--which women worldwide refuse to contemplate or accept--or transgender...which is simply bizarre and grossly unfair to transgendered people.

And besides---to make John Twist out be a closeted gay male in WYOMING is an awful idea...I LOVE Wyoming, Wyoming does not deserve him.

I find no genuine evidence for John Twist as a gay person.I find plenty to brand him as an abomination of a man.

If you think I am hard on John Twist go visit the film threads on cullen roflmao. I will seem.....sweet.

yes, that says it well. I will seem.....sweet!

[Artiste]

Thanks brokebackjack!!

Wow, wow!! Your comments are indeed assertive!!?? I find them interesting!! And am grateful that you are expressing them!!

Glad that you like Wyoming!! Wyoming does not derserve John Twist nor want him... as you say, nor want Ennis's father, nor any murders of gay men simply because they are gays, if I may say. The murder of that gay young man was needless, but it was a murder by two... peers?? (I forget his name, and I think a movie on TV I saw about it, as I know it made headlines in the USA, Canada... and likely in many countries; it still does in many places, even in Europe.) I do not want any murders in the USA, Canada, nor elsewhere!! I think needless murders of gays because they are gays as a reason, do happen and too often as far as I am concern and this is increasing unfortunately... and will increase!! I find it too unfortunate that many such murders and maybe most are either unsolved, or no one wants to solve them; and, no one goes to jail for it most times nor get hung by a rope or same way they killed; I know of one case... where one of the two murderers got away from spending a day in jail; the judge had to let him go... as the jury claimed he was thruthful (( a bit like the Simpson case remember but this one did say he was there in the murder scene!!), but as far as I am concerned he should have been jailed a long time for many reasons!! Plus, the ones (4 at once who tried to kill me), got away with it too, and the police did not even take finger prints as the police could have as I left broken glass, wood, etc., for days for them to do so!!

For now, I will just take one sentence from your comments:
His behaviour towards EDM is so horrific that even in the script, the screenwriters say Ennis cannot get away from this terrible old man fast enough.
...

If you are talking about the scene where Ennis enters Mr. and Mrs. Twist's house for the first time after Jack's death,
then I do NOT agree that Mr. John Twist is horrific, not to that point of using that word!! Not when I look at the movie!! Stern in the movie was John Twist to Ennis, yes but not horrific.

I must check the screen script to see that: may I ask you to provide me those lines then and is that word horrific used by the two screenwriters??

I do find that the scene of the murdered body of that gay man who was in the gay couple relationship or marriage, that is horrific indeed!! Plus the scene of Jack getting killed by murderers, that is horrific!! Mass murders and single murder... are always a horrific events to me; even self-defence to save one's life as I had was filled with horror!!

Scene of Mr. Twist, talking to Ennis is indeed overwhelming, in many ways!! Owerpowering too?? For whom, by who, for us viewers too???

Having looked at the movie (only twice as a whole one), I did NOT find Mr. John Twist horrific!! Harsh maybe?? Stern, yes!! Sad, terribly sad yes!! I do think that Ennis deserved to be told off by Mr. John Twist!! Do you??

Anyway, I wait your news,

hugs!!

Note: I will try to seek the film threads on cullen roflmao... remind me.

I still think the question of Mr. John Twist could have been or is gay (homosexual), an important one!!

[brokebackjack]

I think he was a walking nightmare. The words used by the screenwriters are 'this terrible old man'

He treated Ennis like nothing

[Artiste]

Thanks brokenbackjack!!

You say that Jack's father was described as this terrible old man by the screenwriters??

Hugs!!

[RossInIllinois]

Thanks brokenbackjack!!

You say that Jack's father was described as this terrible old man by the screenwriters??

Hugs!!

The way I see it  Jack Twist sr loved his son. He refused to give him up to the Mountain and that proves that to me. I think what you saw in the movie was a "broken man" un happy with his life with no way out thats all. Holding on to Jacks ashes was the only power he had left.

[brokebackjack]

I think we saw exactly what the screenwriters wished to convey, which was exactly what Annie Proulx conveyed: A terrible old man.

He didn't give a damned about jack or Jack's ashes. He knew what his son wanted and refused it.It was the mother who cared.

And he refused....because he wanted to. And was 'a terrible old man.'