Author Topic: Jack was maligned unfairly  (Read 14153 times)

Offline BBM-Cat

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Re: Jack was maligned unfairly
« Reply #20 on: March 25, 2007, 03:16:55 pm »
I hate to be a post stealer but yes, JACK WAS MALIGNED UNFAIRLY, Lee.

Perhaps I was too critical of Jack, I only wanted to point out that his personality was perhaps a factor in him not achieving much more than he wanted. Overall, he was a good man. I definitely agree he had many many redeeming qualities, especially his good looks!
Six-word Stories:  ~Jack: Lightning Flat, lightning love, flat denied   ~Ennis: Open space: flat tire, tire iron?

Offline brokebackjack

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Re: Jack was maligned unfairly
« Reply #21 on: March 25, 2007, 04:32:40 pm »
hehe, bbjack, I was just writing about how Jack was like a horse, but I didn't think of that one! (Who cares with that tongue of his!!) Go look at this:

http://bettermost.net/forum/index.php/topic,1039.msg172121.html#msg172121

oh, and if you go back one page you can also read more on the harmonica issue written by our FRiend EDelMar!!



The tongue is genetic, his pappy does the same thing lolololol
"I couldn't stand it no more so i fixed it"

Offline Brown Eyes

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Re: Jack was maligned unfairly
« Reply #22 on: March 26, 2007, 07:41:14 pm »
Sure, and we all hate to see Jack be treated that way. Getting more into the psychology of Jack though - how much of the mistreatment by others could he have deflected or changed? In some ways because of his unassertive nature, Jack was the "puppy that gets kicked a lot" so to speak. I hate to say he allowed it, but in a way he did. I really saw Jack develop his assertiveness though, throughout the movie with the culmination at the FLS. Perhaps Jack's ideas/dreams 'never came to pass' because he lacked follow-through and self-confidence (yes, he was confident in some things but not the 'biggies' - his ideas/dreams). Maybe he had a self-fulfilling expectation of failure- and maybe others saw this in him too.

Well, I'll agree with you while still maintaining my position of feeling so, so sorry for Jack (and Ennis too). 

I agree that neither Jack nor Ennis were completely passive victims of society, circumstance, etc.  There were instances where societal elements/ unfair circumstances were entirely beyond their control.  But, there were also decisions and mistakes that were within their control too (this can be said for Alma and Lureen, etc. too).  People are certainly responsible for some of their own fate and their own happiness to a certain extent.  Jack certainly made mistakes (for example, perhaps in letting Ennis leave too easily at the end of the '63 summer... and perhaps he misjudged and shouldn't have driven up for a surprise visit following Ennis's divorce, etc.).  But, likewise, Ennis is somewhat responsible for the sad situation he's left in at the end.  His motto of "if you can't fix it, you've got to stand it" turned into his own self-imposed life sentence.

None of the characters are "perfect" and their tragedy has a lot to do with imperfect decisions that all people make.  At a basic level all of this just adds to the realism of the story and makes the tragedy feel so plausible.
the world was asleep to our latent fuss - bowie

Offline brokebackjack

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Re: Jack was maligned unfairly
« Reply #23 on: March 28, 2007, 05:07:59 am »
hehe, bbjack, I was just writing about how Jack was like a horse, but I didn't think of that one! (Who cares with that tongue of his!!) Go look at this:

http://bettermost.net/forum/index.php/topic,1039.msg172121.html#msg172121

oh, and if you go back one page you can also read more on the harmonica issue written by our FRiend EDelMar!!


Lee, can't find Edelmar....
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Offline Front-Ranger

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Re: Jack was maligned unfairly
« Reply #24 on: March 29, 2007, 01:08:19 pm »
Here is the link to EDelMar's treatise on the harmonica playing:

http://bettermost.net/forum/index.php/topic,1039.msg149044.html#msg149044

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Offline Front-Ranger

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Re: Jack was maligned unfairly
« Reply #25 on: November 17, 2007, 05:30:54 pm »
Hooray for the Archives!  They save the day once again!
 :-*

I agree with a couple points above, that in this scene with Jack playing the harmonica near the sheep Ennis is teasing and even flirting with Jack.  I think he's trying (consciously at this point) to turn the harmonica into an inside joke between the two of them.  Which I think is why he brings it up again years later during the reunion camping trip.  I don't think he's actually bothered by Jack's harmonica playing one tiny bit.  At this point, I think he's so smitten with Jack that he probably thinks it's adorable and the best music he's ever heard.  The happy look on Ennis's face indicates this to me (his facial expression and the tone of his voice contradict his teasing remark). 

It's interesting that it seems that the harmonica fits Jack's personality (maybe because it's loud and exhuberant) and not Ennis's.  But, Ennis is musical.  We know he likes to hum/sing to himself and then he hums to Jack too during the flashback.

Interesting, friend! I never thought of it that way...maybe this is one way the filmmakers are trying to bring AP's writing to life, when she wrote, "Ennis felt as good as he ever had, thought he could paw the white out of the moon." And about the harmonica fitting Jack, I agree with you in so many ways. Even in the simple way that the harmonica creates sound by air passing thru it, when Jack is associated with air and wind, and was supposedly felled by a tire exploding when he was pumping it up with air. Also, the harmonica, despite being "flattened" by a throw from a low-startle-point filly (while Jack was waylaid by Lureen) keeps going and making its music, not letting setbacks derail it!!

Your point about Ennis surprisingly being musical too is well taken. He likes to bang on the coffeepot, and in the story he knows the salty words to The Strawberry Roan." Perhaps he is like the livestock that can be calmed by the crooning of a cowboy, yet skittish of its charms!!
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Offline brokebackjack

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Re: Jack was maligned unfairly
« Reply #26 on: November 18, 2007, 05:05:43 am »
wew3ll, he was a good guy, they both were. But neither of them was particularly competent...
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Offline brokebackjack

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Re: Jack was maligned unfairly
« Reply #27 on: January 05, 2008, 07:03:29 am »
When the character's creator says he is MARGINALLY SKILLED as a bull rider, cowboy etc., THEN HE IS. There is no way around Annie. But this does not say he was a bad guy, it says he didn't have skills. Jack Twist, who is second fiddle in the short story if not the film, is one of the most appealing characters in English language literature.
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Offline Artiste

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Re: Jack was maligned unfairly
« Reply #28 on: January 06, 2008, 02:33:45 pm »
Hi to you all!!

Just discovered with joy this thread!! And was happy to read all comments!!

Concerning Jack and Ennis about the harmonica, since I consider that they both were maligned infairly... in different ways and degrees, that instrument shows them both as shy!! To me, when I think about it!

My father played the harmonica, when he could. At times at small parties, to spark them. Even when we had to go moose hunting, he played it... then too, maybe to scare away wolves or to celebrate the hunt success since we often did nearly starve and had to go into the forest to survive!!  But I had never realized that he was extremely shy and that that he was hidding in a way behind the harmonica!!

It seems to me that Jack hides with his harmonica as his shyness, and also rings hope or happiness at other times with it. AS in my paintings I create, there is a duality about harmonica playing!! ??

The bad persons or wolves (if I may use those words) who senses or sees that Jack is shy, pry on him and want to hurt him in different ways, even bash or murder him easily!! So, at time(s), Jack realizes that and protects himself!! With or without his harmonica! Many types of persons maligns Jack unfairly!!

As for Ennis, he senses Jack true nature: shyness!! Since, Ennis is extremely shy too. Maybe much more so that Jack?? And accepts Jack shyness via harmonica... tunes more and more, even applauding him for it!! Since Ennis is helped that way, as one way, to open up to life, more and more!!

Harmonica or playing other instruments are also beautiful past times, right?? Being up there in the mountains, such effort at time are delights for both (Ennis and Jack)!!

But where did Jack learn or get his harmonica? From his father? From his mother? Or? Any clues?

It remains that Jack in many ways unmentioned yet maybe, that he was maligned unfairly in the Brokeback Mountain movie since he was a shy charactor? And therefore pried (is that the right word?) upon?

Hugs!! May all harmonica players in the world play tunes for gay joys in life!!






Offline Front-Ranger

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Re: Jack was maligned unfairly
« Reply #29 on: January 11, 2008, 11:22:13 am »
Jack spent his whole life unable to say to Ennis, "I love you." How could this have happened? It happened little by little. In the very beginning, he wanted to reach out to Ennis. He began to walk right up to him. But, Ennis just lowered his head and covered his face with his hat brim, blocking Jack off. That was okay. Jack went back to the shelter of his truck, and spruced up for Ennis, sneaking glances in his rear-view mirror. Aguirre conferred even more power on Ennis, while lecturing to Jack, pointing to him and ordering him to break the rules. At the next possible opportunity, Jack reached out to Ennis again. Once again, Ennis rebuffed Jack by only giving his first name.

Finally, at the tavern, Ennis's guard began to come down. Ennis was emboldened to borrow Jack's lighter, then to tell him to watch out for the low-startle-point filly. Jack felt the balance of power changing. He adopted a blustery front for Ennis, toting sheep across the stream, shlepping water.

As the herder, Jack had to spend long hours away from camp, and he often looked down on Ennis's night fire. He complained about the situation, hoping to get more of Ennis's companionship, but instead Ennis dictated that the boys should switch roles and Ennis should take control of the herd and the gun. Not being a homebody, Jack had no interest in cooking and tending the camp. He was inept even at nursing wounds when Ennis came home hurt. Ennis was pretty much in total control by the time he shot the elk for Jack because he was tired of Jack's "dumbass missing." He also maligned Jack's harmonica playing and his rodeo experience, saying (by quoting his father) that rodeo cowboys "was all fuckups."
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