Author Topic: Question about a particular scene  (Read 10180 times)

Offline ednbarby

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Question about a particular scene
« on: April 22, 2006, 04:36:05 pm »
In lo my nine (so far) viewings, it's never occurred to me to ask this question.  But a friend who'd just seen it for only the second time (first on DVD) the other day and who loves it, too, asked me this, and I wasn't able to answer:  "Why do you think they had that cowboy walk by Ennis while he was dry-heaving and sobbing - wasn't it poignant enough without its being interrupted like that?"

The only answer I've been able to come up with since is that maybe Larry and Diana (or was it Ang?  I don't know if it's in the screenplay but I know it isn't in the short story) wanted to give everything significant a sense that someone was always watching - as Aguirre was watching and Alma later, too?  Or was it just simply a dramatic device?  I do think he makes a good point - that the scene and the acting were believable and strong enough that it was unnecessary.

What are your thoughts?
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Offline hermitdave

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Re: Question about a particular scene
« Reply #1 on: April 22, 2006, 04:54:13 pm »
All the reasons you listed make sense as to why the cowboy is walking by. Maybe Ang wanted to show another example of how repressed,angry, and afraid Ennis is of showing his real feelings. After all the cowboy may have stopped out of sincere concern-to ask if Ennis was o.k. But before he could say anything, Ennis rebuffed him and drove him away. He was off the mountain, back in the real world. even on a mostly deserted street-he had to pull himself together, push those feelings back down- or people would "know".
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Offline David

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Re: Question about a particular scene
« Reply #2 on: April 22, 2006, 05:00:01 pm »
Oh I think having that guy spot Ennis having his ...uh,  panic attack?  was important.

Much like many of Ennis's "loss of control" scenes, he reacts with an outburst of anger.

"What the F*ck are you looking at!?"   So very typical of Ennis.   So very important that Ang Lee shows us that.   It is the first of many such outbursts.   

Like the 4th of July scene,  the post Thanksgiving scene, even the final fight with Jack.  He lashes out at Jack just before he collapses to his knees in front of Jack.   Yup, that scene in the Alley just sets the precedent.

Poor Ennis.   :'(

Offline Front-Ranger

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Re: Question about a particular scene
« Reply #3 on: April 22, 2006, 05:02:38 pm »
You're right, hopeful, I think. Even more, Lee shows how his fear is justified. When you have to let your feelings out, be vulnerable, is just when the danger of being found out is greatest. It is also one of the earliest examples of Ennis lashing out with anger and violence to cover his fear and to distract people from "coming to know those things" about him.
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Offline ednbarby

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Re: Question about a particular scene
« Reply #4 on: April 22, 2006, 06:34:41 pm »
Thanks, everyone.  Excellent points, all.  I'll pass this on to my friend.  And thanks for enlightening me, too.
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Offline fernly

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Re: Question about a particular scene
« Reply #5 on: April 22, 2006, 07:56:00 pm »
I think having the stranger pass by is also a device that forces Ennis to ask an essential question that Ennis himself doesn't begin to know the answer to.

Isn't the passerby also wearing a black hat?  the first of the stream of reminders of Jack that will accompany Ennis through his days apart from him, just as Jack will have reminders of Ennis.
« Last Edit: April 22, 2006, 07:57:34 pm by fernly »
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Offline ednbarby

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Re: Question about a particular scene
« Reply #6 on: April 22, 2006, 08:05:50 pm »
I think having the stranger pass by is also a device that forces Ennis to ask an essential question that Ennis himself doesn't begin to know the answer to.

Isn't the passerby also wearing a black hat?  the first of the stream of reminders of Jack that will accompany Ennis through his days apart from him, just as Jack will have reminders of Ennis.

Good point, Fernly.  Yes, he was wearing a black hat.  That's something I noticed throughout the movie - men walking by Ennis wearing black hats.  It happens at least a couple of other times that I can think of.  Hmmmm...  Something else to watch for on my next viewing.  :)
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Offline DeeDee

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Re: Question about a particular scene
« Reply #7 on: April 22, 2006, 08:20:51 pm »
I think having the stranger pass by is also a device that forces Ennis to ask an essential question that Ennis himself doesn't begin to know the answer to.

Isn't the passerby also wearing a black hat?  the first of the stream of reminders of Jack that will accompany Ennis through his days apart from him, just as Jack will have reminders of Ennis.


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Offline Rayn

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Re: Question about a particular scene
« Reply #8 on: April 23, 2006, 07:26:35 am »
....to show an example of how repressed, angry and afraid Ennis is of showing his real feelings. After all the cowboy may have stopped out of sincere concern-to ask if Ennis was o.k. But before he could say anything, Ennis rebuffed him and drove him away. He was off the mountain, back in the real world. even on a mostly deserted street-he had to pull himself together, push those feelings back down- or people would "know".

 
     As far as why they had the cowboy walk by in the movie, yeah, I think hopefulheart nails it on the nose with what he wrote above.  There is also, along with all the feelings Ennis is trying to control, the great embarrassment of having tender feelings for anyone.  Ennis doesn't know too well how to deal with strong feelings of "love" or tenderness, not for Alma, much less for Jack, a man!  He does “ok” with his girls, but he isn’t all that good at expressing love for other adults.

    Like some men, Ennis feels a display of such feelings for anyone is "a show of un-manliness" and such feelilngs for the same gender are down right frightening, so he does all he can to hide them with a threatening display of anger. 

  A deeper look at this is when Jack & Ennis first get back together, they're sittin' by the fire, Jack has offered a possibility... "You know, it could be like this, just like this, always..."  Ennis says that it's impossible, but it's important to hear how Ennis expresses his fear in words: "The bottom line is, we're around each another, and this THING GRABS HOLD OF US again, in the wrong place, in the wrong time... and WE'RE DEAD."  For Ennis "THIS THING" i.e.  his attraction and affection for Jack is like a monster that can kill him, kill both of them, it is a matter of life and death and that's profoundly scary to him.  Ennis then tells Jack about the death of Earl, the old rancher, an event that haunts and hurts Ennis for life.  He goes on to say that they can get together every once in awhile way out in the middle of nowhere.  For all his bravado and toughness, which is real in many respects, Ennis' fear is so great that he can only risk being in love with Jack if they are "out in the middle of nowhere".  That is deep seated fear and all the more reason to feel sympathy for him and to empathize with him.  I empathize with him.  Why?

    Because it's still "a life and death" thing today.   I cannot forget Matthew Shepherd, nor the young man who was stabbed to death in my own hometown because a group of violent young men just thought he was gay!  He wasn't gay, and yet, they killed him anyway! Slit his guts open with a knife and left him to die.  That was only in the 90s.  And how many others have died like that?  How often do you worry about it?  I know the chances are fewer these days, but as long as there is a chance, it's too much of a chance for anyone.  Part of the reason Annie P. wrote BBM was to generate understanding and tolerance for Gay men, for anyone of our orientation.  She said that in a recent interview.

   Some say, "Look how far we have come."  But as long as anyone of us, man or woman, walks the streets of any cities afraid of being bashed or killed for being gay, we still have a long way to go! That is why Brokeback Mountain is so important!  It shines a light not only on the fact that we can love, but also that there are others who hate us for loving.  I am 54 years old and I'm a little sad to think that I won't see the day when there is an end to such hatred, but it doesn't mean anyone should stop reaching for that golden prize:  Freedom to love anyone, must be a freedom given to everyone. 

 Now, I'm sorry if I got off the topic a little on my soapbox, but sometimes I get carried away and have to say what I have to say; not only for the sake of saying it, but also for the sake of those who know firsthand what I'm talking about. 

Peace,
Rayn
   
« Last Edit: April 25, 2006, 12:55:41 pm by Rayn »

Offline ednbarby

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Re: Question about a particular scene
« Reply #9 on: April 23, 2006, 08:03:54 am »
Don't be sorry, Rayn.  It needs to be said.  And often.  And you did it extremely well.

You know, when my husband watched this movie, he gasped out loud at Ennis' description of what was done to Earl, and he gasped out loud again at Ennis' imagining of what happened (and what really happened, in my view) to Jack.  When he said that this movie changed the way he felt about gay men, I knew it was these scenes that did that.  I know he had sympathy for gay men and their love for each other before - he is a pilot and has told me many times how he is often the only one that gives the gay flight attendants on his crews the time of day - that the other pilots ignore or talk down to them all the time - but I think he still didn't realize the magnitude of the stigma and the ugly undercurrent of it they still face today.
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