Question about a particular scene

[Rayn]

Don't be sorry, Rayn.  It needs to be said.  And often.  And you did it extremely well.

You know, when my husband watched this movie, he gasped out loud at Ennis' description of what was done to Earl, and he gasped out loud again at Ennis' imagining of what happened (and what really happened, in my view) to Jack.  When he said that this movie changed the way he felt about gay men, I knew it was these scenes that did that.  I know he had sympathy for gay men and their love for each other before - he is a pilot and has told me many times how he is often the only one that gives the gay flight attendants on his crews the time of day - that the other pilots ignore or talk down to them all the time - but I think he still didn't realize the magnitude of the stigma and the ugly undercurrent of it they still face today.

Thanks ednbarby... that's kind of you to tell me that and what a wonderful guy your husband is!  He gasped at those parts, huh, wow, a very sensitive, intelligent man.  I know there are many like him out there, but it gives me hope just now to know there are guys like him around. 

You know, I watched the movie again tonight... (my sixth viewing).  I doubt it will ever lose it's power and impact on me.  I paid special attention to the part where Ennis collapses in the alley after Jack leaves the first time.   You know, he forces so much of the good, sensitive emotions down inside him in the early part of his life, but with age, he gets somewhat better.   Still, when I see Ennis, I see his internal pain.  I see him crying on the inside, so deeply.  Later in his life, and the movie, he is at least able to cry, and that is good.   

I have never understood why we train and teach boys not to express every human emotion and although it's getting better, as long as boys are trained that way, I never will understand.

Yours truly,
Rayn

[bbm_stitchbuffyfan]

...men walking by Ennis wearing black hats.  It happens at least a couple of other times that I can think of.  Hmmmm...

I never really noticed that. I am going to look for that as well. Damn, I love this movie!

And Rayn, well-said.

[ednbarby]

I have never understood why we train and teach boys not to express every human emotion and although it's getting better, as long as boys are trained that way, I never will understand.

Yes!  That's something I'm particularly conscious of with my son.  I'm noticing that he's very sensitive already - he picks up on it very quickly when someone else is hurting, even if it's someone on TV or out in public that he doesn't know.  He'll say, "That lady was sad," or "That little boy is crying!"  Rather than tell him to mind his own business or that it isn't nice to talk about other people or some such thing, I ask him why he thinks the lady was sad or the boy was crying.  And we talk about it a little bit, and I try to get across to him that it's OK to feel sad sometimes and to cry when you're hurt.  Not trying to force it on him or anything, but just letting him know it's OK to just let it be whatever it is.  One thing I've promised myself I would never utter to him, besides "shut up," is "Big boys don't cry."  I'm screwing up a lot of other stuff, I know, but it least he'll be in touch with his feelings. 

[Brown Eyes]

Ooooo a "symbols" discussion!  And I love the symbols!
 


Yes, I think the black hat is a vital clue to suggest that Jack is on Ennis's mind here... and it's one of the Jack symbols that really haunts Ennis.  I remember in my first, naive viewing of the movie I actually thought, for a split second, that it was Jack coming back to find Ennis. Of course, I quickly realized that the guy doesn't really even look like Jack other than the hat.

The black hat here echos the man in the white hat that walks quickly out of the frame behind Ennis as he has his final conversation with Jack that first summer (as they're both leaning on Jack's black truck).  The man that walks behind Ennis seems to be a sign that Ennis has "checked-out" of the idyllic mood of the mountain as he's trying to force himself to conform to societal expectations (and hopelessly trying to detach from Jack... by being a jerk).  Not only is Ennis surrounded by black-hatted men at vital moments of the film, Jack is often surrounded by men in white hats.

Note too the major presense of the wind as Ennis cries and has the dry heaves.  The wind just engulfs him here, and wind/ air is of course Jack's main nature symbol.  So, Jack is *really* overwhelming Ennis here.  My other favorite moment of the wind as a sign that Ennis is overcome by Jack is right after the first tent scene.  As Jack looks at Ennis ride away, the wind really kicks up and seems to follow Ennis all the way up the mountain as he's just lost in thought trying to figure out what has just happened.

[starboardlight]

How have I missed this thread for so many days?

Thank you Barb for bring this up. Like many I had always thought that it was to show Ennis handling his emotions with anger and violence, but you also bring up a good point, in how he is always being watched. At least he feels that way, and the moment is there to reinforce that as well. He doesn't have the space, emotional or social, to allow himself to feel his love fully. The cowboy interrupting his moment is meant to show that. He has to repress his emotions all the time, even when he feels broken down.

[bbm_stitchbuffyfan]

Excellent assessment, atz, on how the light-colored hats surround Jack and black ones surround Ennis. Sometimes it takes some analyzing to make up for the parts in the film where Jack and Ennis are apart and through the movie's symbols and nuances, you know that what you're watching is an Ennis and Jack scene.

And I like the interpretation of the man walking by as a reinforcement of Ennis repressing his feelings. That's thought-provoking.

[fernly]

Another poster, wish I could remember who, noticed that...
 In yet another scene with Ennis confronting feelings he doesn't know what to do with, in the bus station...
in the background there are two men, one in a black hat and one in a white,  buying tickets to travel apparently together. The poster's interpretation was that this was a reminder of what Jack wanted for the two of them, being together, moving on somewhere, in public, together.
And I think maybe it shows what Ennis is coming to have in the back of his mind, since he'd ended things with Cassie, maybe he was getting ready to give something more to Jack, and it's already too late.

[Brown Eyes]

Heya fernly,
I love that detail in the bus station!  I think it's one of the best black & white hat moments.  I also love the moment when Ennis is dancing with Cassie (while Alma Jr. watches) and the only other couple on the dance floor is a man with a black hat with a woman covered in tattoos.  I see that as another black-hat reminder of Jack.

And, thanks  bbm_stitchbuffyfan. 

[starboardlight]

Another poster, wish I could remember who, noticed that...
 In yet another scene with Ennis confronting feelings he doesn't know what to do with, in the bus station...
in the background there are two men, one in a black hat and one in a white,  buying tickets to travel apparently together. The poster's interpretation was that this was a reminder of what Jack wanted for the two of them, being together, moving on somewhere, in public, together.
And I think maybe it shows what Ennis is coming to have in the back of his mind, since he'd ended things with Cassie, maybe he was getting ready to give something more to Jack, and it's already too late.

that was me. yay! someone read that post. hardly anyone responded to that. i thought i was alone in seeing the significant of it.
any who. i loved seeing those two men every times. a hint that may "real sweet life" may have been possible after all.

[fernly]

Hey Nipith,
Your observation was wonderful! Should have said so at the time. It's enriched my (many) subsequent viewings of the film.
It's another of the many if onlys...
if only Ennis had understood, put a name to, and done something about the feelings that drove him to his knees in the alley.
if only Ennis had lifted his head, looked beyond Riverton (instead of back through the fear that started when he was 9 and was reinforced god knows how many times in his daily life), and seen two men doing what they needed to do to have a life together.

Fern