Author Topic: Who had Control and Used it: Jack or Ennis?  (Read 12654 times)

chelseagirl

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Who had Control and Used it: Jack or Ennis?
« on: April 21, 2007, 05:09:27 pm »

I read the ss I've watched the movie countless times,  and I can't get over there was streak if ever so lightly played out, was that of control.   At first I felt it was Ennis, he could be dominating SOB when he wants.  Then I think of Jack, he uses sex, putting the idea of Mexico in Ennis's head.  

Like in some, maybe in many relationships there is subtle play for power, and I was wondering if this was the case of Jack and Ennis.

Offline HerrKaiser

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Re: Who had Control and Used it: Jack or Ennis?
« Reply #1 on: April 24, 2007, 05:12:59 pm »
Interesting question and query. I think that one main reason the story is so compelling and gripping is that there is no control by either man. you are right, chelseagirl, that many if not most relationships have a control dynamic to them, and usually they emerge wherein one person controls "their turf" and the other controls "their turf" as well; they split up the controlling and the responsibilities. Such tends to lend itself to reliances that keep people together, forge familly structures and order, and give individuals the self esteem they need/want.

Ennis and Jack on the other hand were more independent, interestingly transparent, and without pretense. Ennis in particular wouldn't know how to control if he had to. In spite of his working around Alma, I would not define that as controlling; he just used near childlike excuses and insensitivieites to go after that which he wanted.

the awe and beauty of Ennis' view of their relationship was essentially unmeasured, pure, and without reins, as he said. Any controlling was on Jacks' part, imo. Ennis was clearly nervous about having to tell jack that he would miss the August visit; Ennis knew Jack would have a fit, which he did. Hence, that Ennis knew Jack was a bit of a brat, Ennis' natural behavior was tempered, hence controlled by Jack somewhat. Had it not been, Ennis would have announced this August change of plans up front, but he held off due to his fear of Jack's reaction.

chelseagirl

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Re: Who had Control and Used it: Jack or Ennis?
« Reply #2 on: April 24, 2007, 07:11:01 pm »


I never thought of in that way, HerrKaiser,   I always found Ennis to be most controlling.   He determined how the relationship would run, where they were to meet, "out in the middle of nowhere", how many times they should meet.  I thought Jack was the more sexually dominate of the two, Ennis just couldn't control himself around Jack, "the thing that comes over us". 

When I think of the scene with Ennis changing the dates, he was biting his nail,  he knew Jack would be upset,  I don't think he was prepared for the outcome of it, Jack hit him with both barrels.   

Thanks, your post is great.

Offline RossInIllinois

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Re: Who had Control and Used it: Jack or Ennis?
« Reply #3 on: April 24, 2007, 11:59:46 pm »
There was never a doubt in my mind on this issue.  In the beginning, Jack Twist is the aggressor in the story. You can easily see this in the opening sequence and dominating posturing by Twist and of course the Penis  ;D touching sequence in the tent.  HOWEVER, as in life the table seems to turn in a strange way. Four years later it is Ennis that attacks Jack at the Laundry throwing him against the wall and kissing him. It would also seem at this point the relationship between Jack and Ennis is now in Ennis' controll  they have sex when Ennis has the time and mostly on Ennis' terms yadda yadda Hence Ennis and his Penis now has Jack by the "Apples"  ;)

Offline delalluvia

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Re: Who had Control and Used it: Jack or Ennis?
« Reply #4 on: April 25, 2007, 12:39:54 am »
Ennis had control from day one.  Jack could initiate all he wanted to, but if Ennis didn't respond Jack had nothing.

As one person one time put it, Ennis had control from the time he said, "I ain't queer."  And Jack went along essentially saying "I'm going to play this anyway you want."

And Jack did play along for 20 years.  The relationship was always under Ennis' terms.

Offline loneleeb3

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Re: Who had Control and Used it: Jack or Ennis?
« Reply #5 on: April 25, 2007, 12:14:13 pm »
Thats a tough one. I think Ennis had control physiclly but maybe Jack did emotionally.
jack was intouch with the emotional side of the whole love affair. Ennis could never get there.
You see from the very first night in the tent together that when Ennis is faced with emotion he comes out swinging and Jack has to calm him. I was just watching the movie again and it really struck me how meanand hurtful Ennis can be. When they come down off the mountain instead fo hugging Jack and kissing him and telling him how much he is going to miss him he tries to beat him up. As theyare leaving Aguirres trailer, Jack is looking for any sign that Ennis cares and gets nothing. Every time Jack tries to get close and mention anything close to having a life together Ennis jot only shoots it down but tries to hurt Jack. Like in the stream, he belittles Jack bay saying "Maybe you can get Alma to let you and Lureen adopt the girls." "Oh yeah, your a great thinker". Then right before the Dozy Embrace is probably the most viscious he gets.
I know it's because he he can't show affection so he channels all that passion as anger. But the look on Jacks face each time it's like a knofe is getting pushed in deeper and deeper.
Thats one of the hardest things to watch. You know he loves him more than his own life but can't ever learn how to show it till it's way to late. :'(
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chelseagirl

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Re: Who had Control and Used it: Jack or Ennis?
« Reply #6 on: April 26, 2007, 11:05:23 pm »
   

But it wasn't like Jack was totally at Ennis's will.   Ennis may have made the call for the when and the where to meet, made the rules of how the relationship was to be.  But, Jack held the sexual  keys, and used it. 

Jack was not above looking for comfort in Mexico, and there was Randall.  To get any further with Ennis, was this something Jack should have used?    He did bring up Mexico in the final meeting, which Ennis told him in no uncertain terms he would kill if ever found out anything about his loverand someone else.   

Was this a card Jack should have played? 

Offline delalluvia

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Re: Who had Control and Used it: Jack or Ennis?
« Reply #7 on: April 26, 2007, 11:18:14 pm »
   

But it wasn't like Jack was totally at Ennis's will.   Ennis may have made the call for the when and the where to meet, made the rules of how the relationship was to be.  But, Jack held the sexual  keys, and used it. 

Jack was not above looking for comfort in Mexico, and there was Randall.  To get any further with Ennis, was this something Jack should have used?    He did bring up Mexico in the final meeting, which Ennis told him in no uncertain terms he would kill if ever found out anything about his loverand someone else.   

Was this a card Jack should have played? 

Jack brought up Mexico, but obliquely, as a reference (double meaning for him, not Ennis) for a warmer place to go traveling.

I'm not sure if Jack thought Ennis knew what else could be found in Mexico.

Perhaps it had been a subject of conversation about places 'to go' - like Denver - sometime during their 20 years together.  But the way Ennis brought it up in the conversation leads me to believe Ennis found this out this bit of information himself.

So Jack didn't bring up Mexico as a place where he could find sex, Ennis did.

chelseagirl

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Re: Who had Control and Used it: Jack or Ennis?
« Reply #8 on: April 26, 2007, 11:54:04 pm »
You're absolutely right.  And he knew that's where Jack went.   So why keep quiet up until that time, was that the one thing he couldn't keep Jack from doing?   

Offline loneleeb3

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Re: Who had Control and Used it: Jack or Ennis?
« Reply #9 on: April 27, 2007, 07:27:20 am »
You're absolutely right.  And he knew that's where Jack went.   So why keep quiet up until that time, was that the one thing he couldn't keep Jack from doing?   
Yeah, and I think it crushed him.
I have been in that situation. The man I loved came out and started meeting others and I was so mad and hurt.
I couldn't blame him, I wasn't willing to accept things then and couldn't make the necassary changes in my life. I was jealous, hurt and confused. I know thats how ennis was. What he wanted so bad he felt powerless to do and Jack needing more did what he had to.
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