BM movie is anti-gay??

[Artiste]

Thanks Scott!

Have you considered that there is an accent on the women, on Ennis and Jack's wifes??

Is that not TOO strong to make the BM pro-gay??

Hugs!

[Scott6373]

Thanks Scott!

Have you considered that there is an accent on the women, on Ennis and Jack's wifes??

Is that not TOO strong to make the BM pro-gay??

Hugs!

No...you are focusing on the depicted homosexuality far to literally.  As I have said before, the sexuality, and the setting (rural west) were tools that the author used to illustrate her moral lesson:  Self acceptance, accountability, and intolerance.

Alma was no more educated than any other character.  What she saw, was her husband displaying passion with someone other than her.  Passion that was gone from their drab existence.  Passion that she desperately wanted, and was promised.  How would you react? 

As for Lureen;  She knew about her husband.  Most women of certain life situations know.  She just didn't care, other than her pride being bruised.  She only married Jack to piss off her father, so in that case, both parties were using the other.

Again, as I have said, this film was not made with the intent of being some great anti-homophobia statement.  It's intent was much simpler and purer in nature.

[brokebackjack]

well the whole tale is a story of what we call DRH, destructive rural homophobia. So we have to remember that. It is all contained within the framework created by Annie, who will TELL you it is a story about a self hating character  [Ennis] and a marginally skilled character [Jack]....Ask FrontRanger, she was there for that. And Annie told me, myself,  at other times that this story cannot be divorced from DRH. It is what it is about; everything is within that framework. This story is about the total destruction caused to EVERYONE intimately involved with Jack and Ennis by DRH.
--------------------------------------------------

Alma saw them on the steps. She KNEW.

Lureen had it all come together during the telephone call with Ennis. She was in love with Jack.
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and what I meant artiste was that if I was Alma, in the thanksgiving kitchen scene of the movie, I would have hit Ennis over the head with a dinner plate.

what a DOPE he could be. jesus.

[jstephens9]

Artiste, one thing I hope you are not saying is that women like the movie because they are anti gay. I'm really not sure what you are saying, but I know you said something about a female here being pro women and hating the gays. Like I say, I'm not positive what you meant. I just want to make sure that you know this group is almost half women and they are certainly not anti gay. Like I say, just want to make sure you know that.

Jack

[Artiste]

Thanks jstephens9, thanks brokebackjack, and thanks Scott!!!

I am surprised by your anwers, jstephens9 and brokebackjack, as well as yours too Scott but a little less (I do not know why less)!!!

However, on second thought, should I be surprised that you 3 are all males? Why no females on this subject? I must have gotten on something?

It seems evident that the BM movie is anti-gay, or should I say now: that females now like to dislike gays in more than one way because of this BM movie?

1- Concerning Scott's reply, he says that I am focusing far too much: on the depicted homosexuality far too literally? So there, you Scott are telling me that the BM movie is NOT on gay-men-living principally? Therefore, the BM movie is for straights??

2- Brokebackjack, you say that the BM movie is about: destructive rural homophobia? To that, may I say that it is also about destructive CITY homophobia TOO?

3- And stephens9, likely it seems evident according to some internet sites that some women are anti-gay after seeing this BM movie, as they say so! Other women accentuate that those (what they call GAY-men) should not at all have married to ladies!! That concerns me... a lot; why should not gay men marry women?

Well, here are maybe 3 ways that the BM movie is anti-gay??? Be happy to read
your news,

hugs!!!

[ifyoucantfixit]

       They are saying that he was out of line...he made a rude statement to her,,,as if the divorce was  her fault.
"Once burned."  He wasnt burned...she was...!!!

[Artiste]

Thanks if youcantfixit, and thanks Susiebell!!

Susiebell: I know many gay men who married a women, and are still married and happy being 40, 50 or 60 years married!! Others are separated, just like between two straights: a female and a male!! You tell me the difference to what you say?

Ifyoucantfixit: At least Ennis still saw his wife after she re-married another man!! It seems to me that Ennis' wife stayed too long and is still thinking about Ennis to get him back even at that washing dishes scene??

Yes, i find that the BM movie anti-gay in many ways!! I am a gay man and think that, among other things!

Hugs!

[Brown Eyes]

Thanks jstephens9, thanks brokebackjack, and thanks Scott!!!

I am surprised by your anwers, jstephens9 and brokebackjack, as well as yours too Scott but a little less (I do not know why less)!!!

However, on second thought, should I be surprised that you 3 are all males? Why no females on this subject? I must have gotten on something?

It seems evident that the BM movie is anti-gay, or should I say now: that females now like to dislike gays in more than one way because of this BM movie?

I still don't at all understand how Brokeback can be seen as an "anti-gay" film.  It portrays the complex aspects of things that happened in the lives of the two men and not all of the things in their lives were entirely positive... there were some unfortunate choices made, etc. by ALL the characters in the movie.  But, there are also wonderful and poignant things about their lives that are portrayed.  The thing that's so great about Brokeback is that it does look at the lives of these two main characters in a very complex way.  In my opinion, Proulx in her writing and the filmmakers of the movie all worked to portray Jack and Ennis in a very, very sympathetic way most of the time.  I think the heartbreak and the emotional impact of Brokeback depends on the viewer (any viewer... gay, straight, male or female) identifying with and sympathizing with the situation that Jack and Ennis find themselves in.  I think the idea of any audience member identifying with the two male protagonists is somehow linked to the idea that Brokeback portrays "universal" love.

And, as far as the topic of women goes... Men aren't the only gay people out there.  I'd like to point out that some women are in fact gay (like me) or bisexual. And, the women on these boards in all of my experience here are far, far, far from being "anti-gay".  In fact, the women here (gay, straight or bisexual), I would guess have a deep sense of support for the gay community.  And, I think it's particularly unfair to say that somehow Brokeback causes women "to dislike gays".  I really don't see the evidence for that. 

Artiste, one thing I hope you are not saying is that women like the movie because they are anti gay. I'm really not sure what you are saying, but I know you said something about a female here being pro women and hating the gays. Like I say, I'm not positive what you meant. I just want to make sure that you know this group is almost half women and they are certainly not anti gay. Like I say, just want to make sure you know that.

Jack

And, I also wanted to thank Jack for this nice post.   Thanks for jumping in here with this.

[brokeplex]

Ifyoucantfixit: At least Ennis still saw his wife after she re-married another man!! It seems to me that Ennis' wife stayed too long and is still thinking about Ennis to get him back even at that washing dishes scene??

Yes, i find that the BM movie anti-gay in many ways!! I am a gay man and think that, among other things!

Hugs!

Hi Artiste, thank you for your observations about Alma. I think that perhaps it is misinterpreted that Alma is anti-gay. Alma was deeply hurt by Ennis, as nothing in her life could have prepared her for the fact that Ennis was in love with another man. She simple couldn't deal with it. But, Ennis was the love of her life.Just as Ennis was the love of Jack's life. Wow! Think about how lucky Ennis was, to have two wonderful people in love with him. The Thanksgiving scene in 1977 while washing up the dishes was so very powerful because it showed Alma in her own way trying to reconcile her anger and her love for Ennis, and trying I think to preserve a relationship between Ennis and his daughters. She was trying to "clear the air", trying to say to Ennis what she might have said back in 1967, but couldn't. Had Alma been succesful and established a candid dialog with Ennis overcoming his denial, the situation could have been improved enormously in what was left of their relationships as ex-husbands and wives. But, the fear in Ennis of being exposed overroad all else and he responded to her attempt at communication with a brutal assault.
She is most definitely not anti-gay. Alma is an admirable character who attempeted to transend all of the prejudices and misconceptions of her upbringing.
Artiste, I still can't figure out why you think Brokeback is anti-gay, but I really enjoy reading the dialog your comment has elicited from Bettermostians. have a good weekend.

[ifyoucantfixit]

    I have been re reading this thread.. I think you Are looking at a lot of issues, what you consider as gay rights or gay
experience.  And if you dont get people to agree with your ideas, they are homophobic or anti gay, or however you
put it.  You claim the movie is anti gay because it doesnt fulfill your ideas about how gays should be treated.
    First you think gay men should be able to marry women and if the women dont like the way they are treated by
that.  Then the women are anti gay.
    If the movie shows you that people in the rural area didnt like gay lifestyles,  Then the movie is anti gay.  If we dont
support gay rodeos, then we are anti gay.  If we dont agree with your ideas about the movie, we are anti gay.
    It that is true, then i guess i am homophobic...I will now own it...two times in one day is enough to make a believer
out of me.  I think that you have your own phobias too, that you are unwilling to admit..You dont like anyone that isnt
gay.  Its pretty obvious to me.  There are no more things to answer to you.  So if you cant accept any of the answers
you have been given.  You arent sincere and dont want answers but only to cause controversy.  Because every time you
get an answer, you change the question..Or you say they dont give you proof.  This is starting to annoy people, because
you dont ever accept any of the proofs you are given. 


 ((((((( Hugs ))))))