BM movie is anti-gay??

[Artiste]

Thanks Susiebell!

If you notice, Alma does blame Jack for the breaking of her marriage... right? !!

Is this NOT one way that the BM movie states that it is anti-gay?

And you can find many other ways?

Hugs!

[brokeplex]

Thanks brokeplex!

I am perplexed by the wives: of Ennis, as well as by Jack's wife!! To me, those two wives got what they wanted, according to the movie!! Concerning Annie's story, maybe that is different?

I do not blame the women for getting married to those two men, nor  am I blaming at all their two husbands, because they did what they could as their wives did likewise!! Qu'est-ce sera sera, yes whatever is, is; as the song goes!! Then, now, and in the future too in our societies!!! There are some changes in our civilisations, but there remains dangers too!!

Yes, Alma causes many troubles for Ennis, it seems so in the BM movie!! She is the one who refuses her husband!
One can not blame one nor the other? It seems that life is hard for both!! The fact that Ennis loves Jack, is not for her to blame her husband nor Jack?? !! But she does blame Jack??

Hugs!!

Good morning Artiste! You are a tenacious fellow! You never give up! I admire that quality.One of these days, I'm going to travel up Montreal again and have a look at your paintings. Anyone this tenacious must be a fantastic painter!
You mention something in your above post that caused me again to write back, you write that "...Alma causes many troubles for Ennis......She is the one who refuses her husband!" Artiste I don't think the "refusal" was "trouble" for Ennis, Alma simply didn't want anymore children and wanted Ennis to put on a condom. Ennis couldn't be bothered, that aspect of his character I really didn't like. And I am not going to defend him by claiming that he was a product or his rural upbringing decades ago. His attitude was that of a jerk in any time or culture. Men who are gentlemen share equal rights with their partners in bedroom activities. That was true decades ago and today. It was Alma's right to decide whether to have intercourse with Ennis, condom or no condom. What I see is Alma attempting to accomodate Ennis, but she didn't want anymore children that they couldn't afford. So, Ennis being a jerk, just rolled over and went to sleep. "D-I-V-O-R-C-E!"

[Artiste]

Thanks brokeplex!

Wow... you do mention something that maybe makes the BM movie anti-gay: condom, usage or not! ??

Is this subject of condom in Annie's story?

Hugs!

[Artiste]

Thanks Sussiebell!

You say: Of course she blames Jack!  ... and not because he's gay but because he had an affair with her husband!

This is maybe why, in a way, it makes the BM  anti-gay! ?? It seems to me that on Oprah and other shows that women do NOT mind that their husbands play with another man!!

You saw that?

Hugs!

[brokeplex]

Thanks brokeplex!

Wow... you do mention something that maybe makes the BM movie anti-gay: condom, usage or not! ??

Is this subject of condom in Annie's story?

Hugs!

Artiste, in the movie Alma uses the word "protection". I took that to mean that she was referring to a condom. A condom would be the cheapest way for a heterosexual couple of the time (mid 1970's) in the economic circumstance of Alma and Ennis to try to avoid unwanted pregnancies. I really don't understand why this usage makes you think that Brokeback Mountain is anti-gay. Now....... don't give up! Write me back! My psycho Siamese kitty "Zoloft" is trying to walk on top of my keyboard, and I've got lotsa chores in downtown for today, so I may not get back to you for a while.  Have a great day!

[Artiste]

Thanks brokeplex!

May you have a great day! White snow covering roads, houses, trees, etc., here now! So dress warm your way too?

I must ask straight men especially about such protection!! ?? And ask ladies too!! ?? Maybe a woman then (and now) too used something (other than a condom)?? So it could be that a condom was just used by Alma to get rid of her husband? Alma had an eye on someone else?

This is one reason among others, that make the BM movie anti-gay in some ways! Alama would NOT have been jealous of Jack!!... may I say!!

What do you, and all, think?

Hugs!

[Brown Eyes]

Alma is one of my least favorite characters in the movie.  And the main reason that I don't like her is I feel that she doesn't stand up for herself enough.  Ennis treats her terribly in bed.  We see this early on when he flips her over and she hates it.  I think this is one of the worst scenes regarding Ennis.  I think it's completely wrong to treat your partner that way... to make her have sex in a way that she hates.

So, I wish Alma stood up for herself even back then.  And, the one moment when I do respect her is when she refuses to have sex with Ennis at the end of their marriage.  It's hard for me to understand why she continued to stay in the marriage as long as she did after she learned that Ennis was having an affair... I really don't sympathize much with her decision to stay.  And, I don't think dragging the marriage on was really doing Ennis any favors either.

I do also think Alma is homophobic... which comes out in the Jack Nasty comment.  Her feelings of betrayal at Ennis having any affair are wrapped up in, what I feel, are some latent homophobic feelings for Alma.  I think Alma's criticism of Jack with the "Nasty" comment is what really sends Ennis over the edge in the kitchen scene... for lots of reasons.

Good morning Artiste! You are a tenacious fellow! You never give up! I admire that quality.One of these days, I'm going to travel up Montreal again and have a look at your paintings. Anyone this tenacious must be a fantastic painter!
You mention something in your above post that caused me again to write back, you write that "...Alma causes many troubles for Ennis......She is the one who refuses her husband!" Artiste I don't think the "refusal" was "trouble" for Ennis, Alma simply didn't want anymore children and wanted Ennis to put on a condom. Ennis couldn't be bothered, that aspect of his character I really didn't like. And I am not going to defend him by claiming that he was a product or his rural upbringing decades ago. His attitude was that of a jerk in any time or culture. Men who are gentlemen share equal rights with their partners in bedroom activities. That was true decades ago and today. It was Alma's right to decide whether to have intercourse with Ennis, condom or no condom. What I see is Alma attempting to accomodate Ennis, but she didn't want anymore children that they couldn't afford. So, Ennis being a jerk, just rolled over and went to sleep. "D-I-V-O-R-C-E!"

Hey Bud, I really enjoyed your post and agree with a lot of it.

[Artiste]

Thanks atz75!

Wow... wow, you do describe Alma very well, as in the BM movie!!

You bring up good points as subjects: why did Alma stay that long after seeing especially her husband kiss another man (Jack); plus, is she homophobic?

Concerning these two subjects, is that so in Annie's story, do you think?

Hugs!

[Artiste]

Thanks Susiebell!

I appreciate your candor!

Since it is hard for me to explain and having no time to do so,
maybe we can come back to that or those issues later on.

Maybe there are some subjects in the film that you do find anti-gay? Or discuss it as pro-gay if you prefer??As you seem to think that as it is to you pro-gay!

Hugs!

[souxi]

My dear Artiste, I can see where our differences lie now.  It seems to me that you need to catagorise the film as either anti-gay or pro-gay.  I don't see it as either one of the two.  I simply see it as a story of two people who fall in love and because of prejudices surrounding them and their own fears (by that I mean mostly Ennis), their lives and the lives of the people closest to them, are torn apart.

Take Romeo and Juliet for instance.  I don't see it as anti-heterosexual or pro-heterosexual, anti-young-love or pro-young-love, anti-suicide or pro-suicide.  I simply see it as two people who fall in love and because of prejudices surrounding them and their own fears, their lives and the lives of the people closest to them, are torn apart.

Not pro or anti anything, simply a tragic love story.

Susie   

And that susie, is just how I see the film. It,s a tragic love story about two people, who just happened to be men, who couldn,t be together because of Ennis,s fear of them being killed, and because of the views of narrow minded biggoted people who wouldn,t have been able to leave them alone to get on with their lives in peace.
In Lori,s story, Human Interest, Jack and Ennis are living in Vermont, where, in the story, people there tend to mind their own buisness and let people get on with their lives. Is it really like there? Would Jack and Ennis have been "safe" if they have moved somewhere like that?  Obviously we,ll never know now, I just wondered. I do wish it could be like that, that other people could just mind their own business and let other people live their lives in peace. I know I,m living in gaga land if I think that, but it would be nice.