Our BetterMost Community > Chez Tremblay
sexual orientation, jealousy, and the definition of infidelity.
Jeff Wrangler:
--- Quote from: injest on March 11, 2008, 11:00:55 am ---and you point out quite well that Jack was a gold digger.
--- End quote ---
Tell you what, that sure is a far cry from what people used to write about the sad and lonely look that crosses his face when he's dancing with Lureen. Now he's a male version of Lorelei Lee. :-\
injest:
--- Quote from: Jeff Wrangler on March 11, 2008, 11:09:00 am ---Tell you what, that sure is a far cry from what people used to write about the sad and lonely look that crosses his face when he's dancing with Lureen. Now he's a male version of Lorelei Lee. :-\
--- End quote ---
I know! Trying to place blame is ridiculous...I dont' believe ANY of these people were the conspiring users that they are constantly referred to. That to me subverts the entire point of the movie.
but some people have to have a villian...it has to be Alma and Lureens fault....it has to be Ennis's fault....
no. it was society at that time and place. but it is easier to blame a person than circumstances that are beyond any of the characters control.
Front-Ranger:
--- Quote from: injest on March 11, 2008, 10:40:55 am ---you say you dont' blame them then you portray their actions in a bad light. Ennis was screwing another man and quitting jobs constantly to be with that man, that affected their family, Alma MORE than had reason to ask Ennis to wear protection.
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I did not mean to portray Alma in a bad light. She was a rural woman with few prospects in life and probably preoccupied with not having to go back to another lonely ranch house (which is where she probably grew up). Of course she had reason to ask Ennis to wear protection, but she also could have gotten birth control pills, which were available back then. She may have also sensed that Ennis was just having sex with her in order to get her pregnant and in order to have visible "proof" to the whole world that he was "a man." To her credit, she went out and got a job, but she held it against Ennis.
--- Quote from: injest on March 11, 2008, 10:40:55 am ---and when did it become 'using' someone to like them and seduce them? as far as she knew Jack was available. Jack could have said no. He was a big boy. I dont' see him as being that weak, he made a CHOICE to get married and have kids.
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What I mean by "using" is the way you would use a tool to make work easier or get what you want. I don't mean it like "used up" in the sense of consumed and then thrown out. I don't think Jack felt he had a say in the matter when Lureen seduced him in the T-bird. He was pinned underneath her. If he had refused her, his masculinity would be in question. He did voice some concern, "Whoa, you are in a hurry." In the story, he later said about having children "I didn't want one a either kind" (boy or girl).
Brown Eyes:
I don't think blame is the issue. Everyone of the characters is flawed in one way or another... and it doesn't mean that we don't love and have sympathy for the characters. I totally love Jack and I don't really "blame" him for his financial interest in Lureen. And, Lureen is my favorite female character in the movie, I think she's great. I don't particularly like Alma, but I don't really blame her and nor do I blame Ennis.
In one way of looking at BBM, they're all caught up in systems and conventions that don't fit their circumstances at all.
And, Jess, yes, Alma does expect Ennis to do certain things and Ennis expects Alma to do certain things within the traditional contract of marriage. And on a very base level, they're "using" one another in the expectation that those roles will be fulfilled. That's how the institution functions as a contract... and it's only within fairly recent history that marriages happened out of concern for love/emotion vs. arrangements made by the parents and families (of course this still happens in many cultures today). And usually this was arranged out of interest in property, politics and heirs.
Front-Ranger:
I guess I unwittingly started all this when I said, "Can you blame them?" (referring to Jack and Ennis) It was just a rhetorical question. I wasn't asking anyone to go around searching for where to lay the blame. There's no blame here. This is not a court of law. I should have said, "I don't blame them" or I should have avoided use of the word blame at all. The 1960s were certainly not a time of enlightenment, especially in rural places like Wyoming and Texas. And I'm not sure we have progressed much farther than that today! But, maybe a little...
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