Author Topic: Taking Chances, by E. L. Van Hine and L.H. Nicoll  (Read 4112310 times)

Offline mariez

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Re: Taking Chances, by E. L. Van Hine and L.H. Nicoll
« Reply #9300 on: May 03, 2007, 06:52:50 pm »
Hi Ranchgal,

Thanks for your thoughtful comments. My post was simply an attempt to oblige Louise when she asked "how people feel about the subtle but nonetheless important additions to Colson's inner dialogue." - I'm certainly not trying to impose any of my thoughts on anyone  - that's what they are - musings - not facts.

I do understand what a GED is - I've actually taught night classes to adults working towards their GED.  I have nothing but the utmost respect and admiration to the adults who choose to do this - it's hard work!  A lot of high school grads might have a hard time passing a GED test!  :)  My reference to Colson being kicked out is taken directly from paragraph 15 of Chapter 7:

"But he wondered if he would have felt different if this were when he was just kicked out of high school, and instead of Adam, it was Pete out in the canyon with him."

This is new to the story - and I'm guessing it is one of the "subtle but nonetheless important additions" that Louise was referring to.  I certainly didn't mean any disrespect to the character with my thoughts and I wasn't disparaging the hard-working residents of rural America   I may be wrong, but it is my impression that we are dealing with a new character here - so not everything that applied before will apply now.  I don't know exactly who Colson is yet - so that's the reason for all the questions.  The previous character's truck broke down and he couldn't make it to high school - but that isn't mentioned here - getting kicked out is - and the previous character didn't have adult support - but I don't know yet whether that's true for Colson because I don't know his compete history yet.   You may be absolutely correct that Colson had no ambitions beyond ranch hand, but I don't know Colson well enough yet. Please don't misunderstand - I'm not making any definite prounencements - just kind of thinking out loud and wondering-  I'm simply throwing questions out.  As I said, I know what hard work it is to study for the GED and I'm anxious to discover Colson's motivation!

 I agree with you that Colson is a mature man and is not naive.  I have stated before that the original character is a very smart man - and that being educated is not the same as being smart - some of the smartest people I know are not educated in the traditional way.  I'm not sure what I said that may have given you a different impression - but, again, I apologize if I seemed to be discrediting rural America. 

I added my thoughts on the bruises and rough bouts because that is a change in the story - they replace the remembrance of the one punch.  I don't know exactly what it means yet -  again, I was just trying to find the differences that Louise was referring to to the best of my memory and throw out some thoughts.  I'm not putting the character down.  I'm figuring that if Louise changed it there must be a reason.

The same with the reference to the trap and the urge to bolt - those references were not in the original story - so I'm just throwing some thoughts out about why they may have been added - I don't know why yet myself.  I do know that Louise always manages to surprise me and I'm looking forward to it!  :)

Thanks again,
Marie
The measure of a country's greatness is its ability to retain compassion in times of crisis         ~~~~~~~~~Thurgood Marshall

The worst loneliness is not to be comfortable with yourself.    ~~~~~~~~~ Mark Twain

Offline mariez

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Re: Taking Chances, by E. L. Van Hine and L.H. Nicoll
« Reply #9301 on: May 03, 2007, 11:14:53 pm »
This is for Marie, because she might have missed it the first time around. When we were all in the feverish throes of extreme Ellery-fever, I went out to lunch. I saw a guy from the back who looked like Ellery (when he turned around, I was sorely disappointed). I had a new camera phone which I barely knew how to use (still don't) but somehow or another, I managed to take a surreptitious picture of the back of this guys head. Here it is....LOL



In case anyone is wondering, this picture was taken at Flatbread in Portland, Maine. Fabulous food, definitely worth a visit!

L

OMG ,LOL is right!  I have to thank you on three counts, Leslie.  First, for the laugh - I can just picture you seeing the hair and thinking "Ellery!" and scrambling for a picture!  Second, for making me feel that I'm not insane - well, no, that's not exactly true - I am insane - but it's good to know I'm not alone in my insanity.  And third, for making me feel better that I don't know how to use half of the features on my phone!    :laugh:

Thanks,
Marie

P.S.  Being sorely disappointed was kind of a given - I mean what can compare?   ;D
The measure of a country's greatness is its ability to retain compassion in times of crisis         ~~~~~~~~~Thurgood Marshall

The worst loneliness is not to be comfortable with yourself.    ~~~~~~~~~ Mark Twain

Offline ranchgal

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Re: Taking Chances, by E. L. Van Hine and L.H. Nicoll
« Reply #9302 on: May 03, 2007, 11:49:56 pm »
Mariez, thanks, I have been reading it from Chapter 1, but must have been doing more speeding and taking for granted than word for word-I'll go re read it and see if I get it this time!  because that sentence didn't register with me the first time through.  ;D I did re-read it, and I got it now-you were absolutely right-LOL   And I am thinking you are right in your assessment that Colson is much darker than the first story had him.    Interesting, not sure I like it as well, but definately different.

and maybe I am thinking too much backward, and not enough forward---so you are probably right on with your observations, as while Colson is going in the direction of being a totally new man, I may still be hanging on to attributes I still feel about the past story.   I will maybe have to reevaluate how  I view who Colson is-and make adjustments as we find out more--at least this is making me think and be aware of  more. LOL

next day:
Re-read your thoughts again  and I thought about it some last night, I knew lots of guys that were occasionally suspended from high school, for fighting, and some anti social meaness, or cheating-even a few girls for having their skirts too short--3 days, 7 days, sometimes 2 weeks---but to actually get "kicked out" and not be allowed to return---that puts Colson in a LOSER category for me.   To get that kind of treatment he had to have been truly anti-social, or cruel, not just physical---lots of chronic fighting or threatening a teacher--and if it turns out he is just  mean, I don't know if I can generate the sympathy/humaness he should have.
You are right too about his thoughts about leaving Adam black and blue don't speak well of him at all---within that context that he is violent and threatening--makes him sound more like an abuser than a lover.    And that is not a quality that makes me care about him.     I never got that feeling from the first set of story qualities at all.
     Almost wish I hadn't answered and found out the truth, as it does totally change who he is or who he might be for me.  I would have been blissfully ignorant of the truth, and hence be more tolerant of him.     Bad breaks enlist my empathy, and tolerance---conscious acts of anti-social behavior leave me colder than ice.     He may have taken care of Pete sort of, but his flashbacks to Adam make him less than attractive.   Now I wonder too how Louise will justify who he is, and how he got that way.
And what will have changed between then and now to actually make him a man Ellery can care about, not just be physically attracted to???    I may be wishing she would have started farther back and built up more background before she revamped the old format to fit the new story ideas.   
I obviously tend to cling to the more Ennis like characteristics that I want to find in Colson.  And I tend to want to keep some of the BBM  based "understood"  sentimentalities because  IF he changes too much, I may find I don't care for him nearly as much.   And then I will never understand how Ellery could care for him as much either.  So I may have to completely readjust how I read and think of this story now.  But if I abandon all the "understood" things, and just go with the flow of a totally new story, I am not going to get or have the same understanding or feeling for the story.  Will just have to wait and see how Louise develops this.
« Last Edit: May 04, 2007, 08:39:46 am by ranchgal »

Offline MaineWriter

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Re: Taking Chances, by E. L. Van Hine and L.H. Nicoll
« Reply #9303 on: May 04, 2007, 05:59:24 am »
Good morning everyone! Louise called me at 1:15 am (my time) to say she was in London, waiting for the bus to go from Heathrow to Gatwick, to  begin the penultimate leg of her journey, to Cincinnati. She also said, "I wrote a chapter! I started a new story!" I don't know what it is or what it is about, but I still think that's exciting news. We'll keep you posted.

L
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Offline mariez

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Re: Taking Chances, by E. L. Van Hine and L.H. Nicoll
« Reply #9304 on: May 04, 2007, 12:26:46 pm »
Thanks for the update, Leslie.  Glad to hear Louise has been writing on her loooooong journey - that is exciting news.  Cincinnati?  Getting closer - but Good God - I guess it really is true that you can't get there from here - seems like you can't get anywhere from anywhere!  LOL!

Marie
The measure of a country's greatness is its ability to retain compassion in times of crisis         ~~~~~~~~~Thurgood Marshall

The worst loneliness is not to be comfortable with yourself.    ~~~~~~~~~ Mark Twain

Offline MadLori

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Re: Taking Chances, by E. L. Van Hine and L.H. Nicoll
« Reply #9305 on: May 04, 2007, 12:37:22 pm »
Hi everyone...okay, I haven't been around this thread, but I saw an update and I'm totally confused.

Who the heck is Colson?  Seems Louise is rewriting the Saga to be original and not fanfic, removing the BBM connection?  Am i right?

Is the original Saga ever coming back?  Because I've started re-reading it and I'm jonesing for the post-Taking Chances installments and they're nowhere to be found.

Louise also unfriended me.  :-(  I don't know why.
Jack:  I could kick your ass any day of the week.
Ennis:  Then the weeks where you live must have a No Fuckin' Way Day.

Offline mariez

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Re: Taking Chances, by E. L. Van Hine and L.H. Nicoll
« Reply #9306 on: May 04, 2007, 12:54:00 pm »
Hey, Ranchgal!

Thanks again for your comments - I'm a little alarmed, though :-\ - I didn't intend for my thoughts to make you view the story or Colson in a more negative light!  That's not my view point at all. 

Just to clarify a couple things - I think that Colson may be a slightly darker character (and maybe darker isn't exactly the word I would choose, but I'll got with it for now  :) - but I certainly do not view him as "much" darker.  I also do not believe that being kicked out of high school automatically makes someone a loser - we haven't been told any of the particulars of that event so it would be way to early for me to jump to that conclusion or make that assumption.  Human beings have a great capacity for growth and change - especially from our volatile teen-age years.  I also don't have enough information to totally judge his flashbacks about Adam yet, either.   Speaking objectively here - as much as I love the original character - and I do - it can't be denied that he was also a complex person with violent tendencies.  All the major characters in the original story are flawed and scarred - but just trying to do their best.  And that's how I see Colson right now - as a person full of regret and confusion - but an honorable person - one who tries to do the right thing - but may sometimes fail.  One of the many things I love about Louise's writing is that she never shies away from the tough stuff - she always keeps it real - and I don't doubt that is one thing that won't change!  I don't know that you have to completely "abandon" anything  - maybe just keep an open mind and see where the new developments take us!   :)

Thanks again,
Marie
The measure of a country's greatness is its ability to retain compassion in times of crisis         ~~~~~~~~~Thurgood Marshall

The worst loneliness is not to be comfortable with yourself.    ~~~~~~~~~ Mark Twain

Offline ranchgal

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Re: Taking Chances, by E. L. Van Hine and L.H. Nicoll
« Reply #9307 on: May 04, 2007, 11:08:50 pm »
Thanks Marie, guess that is good advice, to keep a more open mind---and remember to READ it more carefully and not take passages you think you know for granted. LOL ;D



MadLori-yes, you got it---on page 614 reply 1866 Louise posts about revamping the LS into totally original work-and eliminating any characters/situations/places from the BBM/LS stories.   everything in her stories now will be completely hers.
She also posted on the Laramie Saga thread, page 125 reply 1866 that she was locking her journal till the story got reworked and they were ready to start over again.

Hope your vacation was good!
« Last Edit: May 04, 2007, 11:32:58 pm by ranchgal »

Offline louisev

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Re: Taking Chances, by E. L. Van Hine and L.H. Nicoll
« Reply #9308 on: May 05, 2007, 01:58:41 pm »
Oh.... wow.

I am amazed at the intensive discussion surrounding the additions to the story - I don't think you folks missed a period or a comma!

I do wish to reassure you, however, as I get back into the swing of having full time internet and taking my mind off my foot and my old job and back into the swing of writing, editing, and revamping 'Taking Chances...' there will be more back story, and I do not have all of the answers to your questions, Ranchgal, nor all of the clarifications that you were seeking, Marie, but I can tell you there are many areas which were only lightly sketched, for example Colson's educational background and professional aspirations, and the entire relationship with Adam and the 'type of man' comment and his regrets about the roughness between them.  The back story should help bring out clarifications to this and it thrills me endlessly that there is new interest in the tale a year after I wrote it!

And Leslie is making me lunch so I can get with the program now!
“Mr. Coyote always gets me good, boy,”  Ellery said, winking.  “Almost forgot what life was like before I got me my own personal coyote.”


Offline ranchgal

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Re: Taking Chances, by E. L. Van Hine and L.H. Nicoll
« Reply #9309 on: May 05, 2007, 02:34:33 pm »
Food is always GOOD!!   Thanks for the update.
 ;D :D